Paperplane So? I don't claim that i have all the answers. That's their job to find out. But one thing is for sure, f*king over their long time readers is a bad move.. Couldn't they just allow for their long time followers to use the ss they hoarded over months? Webnovel says that they are worried about inflation, but how can people with 1800 ss cause inflation? It will run out pretty quick if there are more premium novels. It's not that big of a number... But on the other hand if they don't solve the multiple account problem, hoarders will be the least of their problem. People can just create dozens of accounts and afford the premium chapters with daily missions alone! A single account would be enough to pay for the daily premium chapters of a single novel. So what was even the point targeting hoarders first before they even solve the multiple account problem? It is pointless and all it does is piss people off. That's what i'm sayin...

    Paperplane How would a company do that exactly? By making it very difficult for people to sign up? Or, trace IPs?

    Easiest solution sub system and no SS system anymore. New accounts wouldn't help anymore and people then can decide between free reading (1 chap per day) or subbing (2 or more per day) without any stupid mid way.
    The premium way will just scare alot of people away (already did).

    Paperplane Korean's popular Naver web novels charge Naver coins to read locked chapters.

    Difference here is that between free readers and coin user the distance always stays at 3 chapters and doesn't increase e.g. ToG.

    Paperplane western company called Tapas

    And they sell email adresses to ad companies, seems like it doesn't work fine for them.

    Paperplane I would like to get paid a fixed amount per chapter

    And they still can get paid per chapter with a sub system.

      N0xiety Did you even read what I wrote? I never claimed you had all the answers, but I did think about what you said and offered two solutions! Crying "FIX THIS!" is unreasonable here, considering the ethics of tracing IPs and the counter-productiveness of making it difficult to sign up. Honestly, the multiple account thing seems like a long-term problem many companies around the world have probably faced for many years, so (not to diss qidian but) I'm not sure how the company can suddenly find a solution for this. If people want to create smurf accounts for SS, they will. I bet they must feel helpless about this...

      Mmm about the inflation thing, I can understand hoarding makes the premium redundant, so I'm guessing they want a clean slate for all readers to prevent people from being inactive like before? I say 'like before' because to have hoarded 1800 ss, how many days of inactivity must that have been? I assume their goal here to 1. create regular activity on the website 2. push for premium and equal pay for freelancers and creators. Yeah that'll piss people off for sure...

        Ebu8b About the multiple accounts solution and pay per chapter reply...
        A subscription would definitely stop the multiple email problem, but I'm not confident it will pay well enough, and I'm not confident qidian will be willing to test this out, since no other online literature service has done this yet (to my knowledge). Would an author get paid per subscriber's click? Or, would unpopular novels be carried? I ask because I don't know.

        If you're comparing this to naver, are you saying that the gap is too big wide between free readers and SS here? I thought the gap was 10 chapters.

        Oh I didn't know Tapas did that for their ad revenues. I have seen ads on there when I try to earn chapters for gold coins. Perhaps, Qidian should cut out ads all together, to avoid this. Nevertheless, they are an existing Western publisher that uses the same system.

          Paperplane Inactivity? Firstly for hoarding alone you need to check in every day and vote every day. So that's 3 pages of visit atleast. Secondly, i have never been inactive and hoarded by watching their ads. I follow 22 novels so you can imagine more than a few having video ads... Now i'm getting rewarded for watching their ads like this. Don't you think i should be pissed off atleast a little?

            N0xiety I did say... "Yeah that'll piss people off for sure..." and you have the right to be.
            Err didn't think that part through, but you do realise I'm the dark on why they've done that too right? I thought I made it very clear that my assumptions are unfounded lol

            Paperplane no other online literature

            Wattpad, Kindle Unlimited, Scribp, Playster, 24Symbols, Overdrive (I think they went the total free way with only ads now, if I am not wrong), Amazon Lending Libary (similar to audible);
            Sub systems and authors get paid per chapter/book (one time fixed + ads) or clicks + ads.

            Paperplane Or, would unpopular novels be carried?

            Well the unpopular novels already suffer. Unpopular ones earn 20$ per chapter while the popular ones get 50$+ (paid by Qidian). So they already don't earn same, that aspect wouldn't change and therefore no carry needed. I wish I could find the interview, where a german author (with a small fan base) explained how that system brought him more money than his blog with patreon.

            Paperplane I thought the gap was 10 chapters.

            Nope it's increasing. I opened a thread where is asked that question. RTW had distance of 12 back then, now it's 16.

            Paperplane should cut out ads all together

            Ehm there is a difference between having google ads and selling the email addresses to ad companies so that they can spam you full with emails. As long as Qidian stays with just google ads and doesn't sell the email adresses, there shouldn't be a problem.

              Ebu8b All but Wattpad look like they're successful sub businesses for completed ebooks, not web novels or translated web novels. Maybe they should consider it after there's a decent amount of stories fully translated. That could be huge. Imagine downloading your fave books like kindle unlim... I had that sub and I enjoyed it. Now about Wattpad premium, it does look successful, but they released in October 2017, which is only a few months ago, and its the only one I now know of that has a subscription for online web novels. Again, if I was a business in this industry, I'd back the universal, long-running, tried and tested system.

              Ok to every other point you've raised.

              I told you that I liked the subscription idea. I care about fair pay for translators, editors, and authors, so if the subscription idea works with that, then they should beta test it. However, I'm also saying that, I can understand why qidian chose this option over the sub. Premium makes sense if you look at other businesses in web novels.

                Ebu8b

                They don't care about their readers in their eyes we're cows milk =/

                  WEBNOVEL_OFFICIAL Before I rant, let me make it clear that I believe there is no such thing as a free lunch. Webnovel has been offering free spirit stones, chapters, etc. to build a following so that they could later make money off us. They had to build that following first, and now that they have done so they are moving into phase two, which they had planned all along. Fair enough. Businesses exist to make money; if anyone thought Webnovel was altruistically giving them stories to read and expecting nothing in return then they are not thinking clearly.

                  In addition, I do not think that a boycott is the answer. Unless the majority of the user base agreed to a boycott, which just will not happen, it will not work, and just hurt the community. Boycotts of electronic IP rarely, if ever, work. No matter what you say, there will always be people willing to support the thing you are boycotting and undermine your protest.

                  My issue with this situation is that the premium model uses nonrefundable, virtual currency usable solely on one website. There are two problems to this:

                  One, spirit stones are basically monopoly money that costs real money. You are less likely to think about how much you are actually spending when what you are spending doesn't actually look like money. It is the same reason casinos use chips instead of cash and video games with micro-transactions have their own virtual currency. And if you ever want to back out of spending money on the spirit stones, you can't get your money back. They could theoretically just connect a bank account or credit card to your Webnovel account, but that would make people watch real money go away with each transaction, which people would be less willing to do.

                  The second issue ties to the first. Has anyone read the forums where people reveal personal information like age? A large portion of users are teens, who may not know how to be financially responsible yet. You can argue this however you want, but it is a fact that the human brain does not finish developing its prefrontal cortex (the decision making part of the brain) until the age of about 25. You can be addicted to anything: drugs, alcohol, food, video games, gambling, and yes even reading. This is why companies always gear advertising to younger audiences to try gain brand loyalty early on.

                  You can say that the premium model is not that expensive, or that any reasonable person won't lose a ton of money on it, but it could prey on a specific group of people rather viciously. Mobile game marketers have called these people 'whales.' Rather than the model in place, I would be interested in seeing a subscription service at a flat rate where you get to read ahead for every book. That would be a less predatory means to monetize in my opinion.

                  Here is the reason I believe Patreon, though flawed, is still the better option to support translators in comparison to the current model. If I want to give anywhere from $1-100 a month to support my favorite translator on Patreon I can do that because everything is not tied to the word count the translator pumps out. Patreon offers more reader agency and doesn't price people out of keeping up with the story. The way the premium method works you are building up a larger and larger pile of locked up chapters each day, releasing one for free and adding two to the premium bank, making everyone else fall further and further behind.

                  I feel tying profit to word count can be a problem for the actual quality too. From what I understand this pay model is similar to the model they use in China. I used to wonder why some webnovels were so tedious to read, going on for thousands of chapters with constant repetition and very little plot/character development from chapter to chapter. At first, I just chalked it up to cultural differences, but now I can clearly see why this happens. This payment method does not encourage quality, edited content. It just pushes the authors, translators, and editors to pump out as much as possible as quickly as possible without a lot of quality control. The more fluff you add to your novel the more it can be monetized under the pay per word model.

                  In the end, if you work for Webnovel then defending the premium model is in your best interests, and no one can blame you for that, but there are better ways to monetize.

                    ImperfectInfinity

                    Cough I like the premium model, because I could frankly not care what happens as long as I'm able to read novels that have a good translation speed and quality.

                    Also wth is this about inflation that Qidian is on about? Unless they are going to let spirit stones be traded for things other then chapters then Inflation is a bullshit excuse. A currency like this has no real value in the first place, it's like saying Bitcoin is worth 7900USD rn. No it isn't, it may cost 7900USD for a single Bitcoin, but is it actually valued at that price? No, it has almost no material value currently until more places begin to adopt Bitcoin and allow it to be used.

                      Exitiumm Inflation happens when there is too much currency among people, and more and more just keeps getting transferred to them.

                      In real life, when the government prints out too much of their currency, and uses it to pay their civil servants, pay for construction projects, etc, this money enters the public domain. The amount of money that gets transferred around will mostly remain constant, while the government continues printing out money, pumping it into the public domain. This is what is called hyperinflation.

                      Same thing on Webnovel. Qidian is currently giving SS for free and if there's no way to reduce the amount of SS among readers (through expiry) other than used for unlocking chapters, there will eventually be an inflation problem when users hoard their SS.

                      This happens in games too. Since 'currency' is dropped by mobs constantly, a tax or way to ensure users will always be poor is introduced to prevent eventual inflation.

                        ImperfectInfinity Patreon, though flawed, is still the better option to support translators in comparison to the current model

                        I don't know if you already knew it or not, but the premium share is 35% translator 35% editor 15% author 15% Qidian. So it's not only about the translator, beside that Patreon takes 35 cent + 2,9% (of the total pledge) of every pledge.

                        A self-made version of Patreon or a sub system would be better, especially that people then know better how much they spent.

                          Marksteele have you never donated to a patreon before? I have that problem all the time. Read 50 chapters ahead for a month donation. Don't donate next month and must wait till free releases catch up again.

                          Seems like u complaining cause u read ahead of what's free and expect to be able to read ahead for free with no consequences.

                            Ebu8b I knew they were using premium to pay everyone involved, but did not know the specific breakdown. I also mentioned right beforehand that I was in favor of the subscription model as well. I was just making a point in response @WEBNOVEL_OFFICIAL 's argument that we need to support the translators somehow, making it sound like this was the only way. I do like the fact that the premium model spreads the wealth to the editor and author, but again, a subscription service would do the same and not encourage adding fluff to the stories.

                            N0xiety asking qidian to solve multi account problem. Like asking cancer to be cured. Day that because multi accounts is a problem that has and still does plague many online companies. Don't see qidian being able to solve a problem so many others have failed to do so.

                            And for people who say track ips, easy as h*'ll to get around that.

                            Ebu8b premium scares people because they don't understand it and when they see any chapters on the site they want it free. Instead of the prem chapters being off site on patreon out of view of people those patreon chapters are now dangling in front of them. They are mad they aren't free cause they can now see them.

                            Amway this is how I view web novels chapters. They have 3 types.

                            1. Free chapters - says it all, free yo read, no ads or stones needed
                            2. Advanced chapters - cost 4 spirit stones or 30 second ad. Allows you to read ahead of the free chapters.
                            3. Premium chapters - formerly called patreon chapters now hosted on web novels. Allows you to read even further ahead the regular release. Cost 8-15 stones (hear it depends on chapter length)

                              N0xiety would you rather have 1 ad at the start or the dam annoying ads other tlers do that pip up in the middle of the chapter. Take liberspark, they have dam ads appearing in the text as you read. I use ad blocker there cause of that. Atleast here once u watch the ad it's gone

                                Ebu8b question to ask isn't how many premium chapters there are in rtw. But if rtw is still releasing the guaranteed 7 chapters free every week. As those 16 chapters are suppose to be the extra premium/patreon chapters. I'm letting rtw stockpile atm so idk if it has kept to the 7 free a week or not. But if it has idk why u mad when they keeping their promise.

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