YulongYuXianTaiyin As mentioned above, some fanfic writers apparently receive contracts that allow gift options on their books. They can't profit with coins and locked chapters; instead, gifts are likened to encouraging "donations" on Patreon. Readers can essentially support the author to write, and not necessarily also the content. It's a bit of a gray area, but I understand/accept that reasoning. It's like a how a YouTube singer that covers actual artists' songs can receive monetary support through Patreon or some other means.
Poor reviews of New System
Tomoyuki the problem is there are novels with over 1000 pages and every single page costs a fast pass or coins, even though the book has been out for over 2 years. There used to be a passive earning system that just gave you 1 kind of currency for the app for reading. Instead of 2 different kinds of currency setting a privilege system.To me with this new system and membership crap they're saying "Those that spend actual money get whatever content they want, while the rest of you readers that can't afford it you f*ck off and watch some ads" essentially. I used to love using this app because I was able to read continuously while constantly earning the app currency that supports you creators. But now I can't anymore and it sucks because I love the book I'm reading but I can't read it unless I spend either coins that I can't afford or a fast pass I have to buy with this dumb point exchange system that doesn't even work half the time. It's getting harder and harder to want to support creators on this platform now because of this stupid system. The in app currency is what supports you right? So why can't they just go back to the old system where you can passively earn coins for reading again and just keep it at that. Readers will feel more inclined to read your stuff for longer, and you'll continue getting revenue from it because they're spending the coins they earn on your story to continue reading it.
- Edited
1.
AMB345 "Those that spend actual money get whatever content they want, while the rest of you readers that can't afford it you f*ck off and watch some ads"
OBVIOUSLY. Otherwise why the f*ck would you spend actual money if you can't get whatever content you want?! If you're paying actual money, you would think you can get the content you are paying for. Isn't that like the most obvious thing about a transaction? Why are you complaining about that? Do I got into a bookshop and complain that those people who spend actual money can buy whatever book they want, while demanding to receive a book for free just because I spent some time staring at the posters and ads posted all over the walls of the bookshop? Good luck convincing the bookshop staff then. Why should people who don't pay actual money get the same amount of content as those who pay? How is that fair to someone who spends actual money? Are you trolling, or are you really that dense?
2.
AMB345 Readers will feel more inclined to read your stuff for longer, and you'll continue getting revenue from it because they're spending the coins they earn on your story to continue reading it.
This is completely untrue. Writers do not get revenue from free coins. Bonus coins, coins that you earn for free by watching daily ads/checking in/voting do NOT bring revenue. Writers only get revenue from paid coins that were actually purchased through Paypal, bonus coins and free coins do NOT give revenue at all. This is probably the main reason for splitting the currency into two, to differentiate the free currency that generates no revenue, from the paid one that actually gives writers revenue.
Chryiss Well $500 was an estimate based on 1000 cheapo fast passes to a single popular novel. There were at least 40k cheapo fast passes sold last week and 20k pricy fast passes sold, so multiply that $500 number by 80 to cover total approximate avoided royalties of $40k. Also, I don't know if a 20% royalty is accurate, but a 25% royalty changes the number to $50k and 15% changes it to $30k that isn't being distributed to authors.
- Edited
KoraL Fast passes and points do not generate revenue, so I have no idea where you pulled that $500 figure from. Are you talking about ads? Let's say you watch an ad every 2 minutes, which gives you 5 points or so. To get a fast pass for 1,000 points, you'll need to watch 200 ads. According to CKTalon, Webnovel gets only 0.02 cents per ad view. So that's 4 cents for a single fast pass. Even if you somehow get 1,000 fast passes, that's $40, nowhere near the $500 you're claiming. Let's multiply that by 80 as you suggested - so you have $3,200 that isn't being distributed to authors. Given that you have close to a few hundred contracted authors on this site, you have to divide the $3,200 among a few hundred (let's say 300). So, what, they avoid paying us $10 (if it's 500, it's basically $6)? And how do you distribute this "avoided royalties" among the writers, given that we are paid per view?
In fact, given the minimum guaranteed sum, it's fair to say that this extra revenue being generated by ads goes to paying the $200 (or $400 for older writers) that's guaranteed for new contracted writers, regardless of how much they earn (for example, I only get paid $1 in my first month because I'm such a pathetic writer and nobody wants to read my stories - Webnovel is paying me $399 out of their own pocket - where do you think they get this money from? Most likely from other revenues, such as those generated by ads). So what exactly is there for us to complain about? That we are denied $6-$10 a month?
It's pretty obvious to me that fast passes and coins are only meant to give you samples of the content behind a paywall. If you really want to support your favorite novel, then paying to support the author's writing is the obvious choice.
If you can't afford it, then you settle for the hundreds and thousands of free novels that are available, in which chances are, you'll end up finding something else similar.
- Edited
Tomoyuki The math was done in a prior post assuming ads gave 2 points a piece and 500 was per annum per thousand fast passes per week. I don't actually know the contract details, and since it's all hush hush, of course I wouldn't know about the guarantee portion as I don't know if the royalty bit was accurate either. I do know though that if your royalty payout ever exceeds the guarantee amount, Webnovel has at least broken even on your writing guarantee based on a 50% quota share.
Also, you may not mind losing out on 100 USD a year, but others may not.
- Edited
KoraL Given that you're given $800 for the first 4 months in return, minimum, I don't think you can complain about that.
Furthermore, you have not addressed any of the points I have made. How do you divide that among writers? It's not an equal distribution because obviously some readers get more views (the ads are on their stories) than others, so it's not fair to just give each person $10. Not to mention, those non-contracted writers or fanfiction writers also contribute to the ad pool (sort of) or earning points from reading for a certain amount of time. Should they get paid from the pool of ad revenue too? How does that even make sense? What do we do about these guys who post stories for free, and people generate points for free on their stories? Have you taken those points accumulated this way into account? Additionally, $10 is just an estimation, and it's probably even less than that because you get 5 points for reading a story for 2 minutes WITHOUT any ads. Let's assume that only half the points are earned from ads, and the other half from reading alone. So it's probably about $3-5, rather than $6-10. Are you seriously going to revolt just because you miss out on $60 a year despite receiving $800-1,600 for the first four months?
That just sounds like greed to me, a case of biting the hand that feeds you just because they don't give you the pocket change they earn over ads. I can tell you that in real life, you just get the salary that is owed to you, even if it's commission based. If your company generates extra income from other sources of avenue (ads, sponsors, whatever), they can give you bonuses, but they are not legally obligated to do so. Thinking that they are is just naivety. I assume you have a job and are employed by a company? Read up the clauses on your contract regarding bonuses.
Also, if you don't know the contract details, and aren't sure of anything, why are you coming up with all these assumptions and asking us to revolt, or assuming that we aren't "okay" with it? If we signed it, we're probably okay with it, otherwise we wouldn't have signed it in the first place.
- Edited
Tomoyuki I wouldn't suggest equal distribution. I would actually suggest that the earned fast passes be counted as a new valued currency that is probably disproportionately spent on higher ranking novels. In this case, the top 10 or so contacted authors would likely see the greatest imputed loss, possibly ammounting to several times what the average writer would see. You speak as if salary, bonus, commission, and royalties are all the same, but they're not. The work I produce for my employer is exclusively theirs; they are nice to provide a non-zero bonus to incentivise me to continue to produce work for them. If I were paid a commission, it would be an amount I get based on a single sale of a product I do not own that they provided. If I were paid a royalty, it should be a share of the revenue/profit they earned from selling a product I produced that I still have rights to.
In the contracts, are you getting royalties, commissions, or bonuses? I'm sorry if I misunderstood the payment structure and you are a contractor getting paid for piecework with the occasional bonus.
I am arguing that they are selling the product by means of a ticket that they provided in exchange for some form of compensation. It would be like saying that if comrade pays Webnovel $5000 on behalf of their community, and Webnovel gives the entire community (excluding our generous comrade) your book for free in exchange, you should be happy to get none of it and it would be greedy to ask for any of it as part of a royalty.
Currently the scale is rather small, so I suppose it doesn't matter, but it's easier to negotiate when the operation is not overly profitable and still in its infancy. And to put things into perspective, there are a slew of class action lawsuits settled over "losses" that amount to less than $20 per person.
- Edited
It doesn't really matter. It's like the two for the price of one (buy one get one free) marketing tactic to get the zero price effect. All the "free" stuff given by WN (free coins, fast passes, points from reading) is just something that they do to keep readers on the platform until they're converted to paying readers. And most authors on this site understand this. Hence they volunteered their novels, out of their own will, to participate in the farming program, knowing they won't get anything from the ads revenue. They know they need to sacrifice something in order to get something better in return.
Chryiss I was under the impression for years that fanworks (fan fiction) is illegal to make any kind of profit off of, since all rights go to the original creator and that would be stealing. I don't know if they have those laws in China, but I'm willing to bet on it. I believe Patreon falls under that category. Although I know you can sometimes make money off of Doujinshi, but fanfiction? There's a lot of debate on the topic since it's clearly defined as illegal to make a profit off of, plus copyright infringement, but it seems in recent years there have been some 'lax' changes (like Amazon). But it's still stealing. Also, if Patreon is allowed to the point you're making an income, then so many other fanworks deserve it more than the ones on here. This site isn't even set up enough for fanfiction.
- Edited
1) Fan fiction is illegal. Period.
2) Most sane authors won't complain about non-profit fan fiction since they draw attention to the original work.
3) Making money from fan fiction is a big no-no. That's cashing in on someone else's IP.
4) The Webnovel contract makes it absolutely clear that 'cashing in on someone else's IP' is exactly the business model they're after in the first place. You sign off every copyright to adaptions and even give away the right to create more stories based on your own work.
YulongYuXianTaiyin I was under that same impression, so that’s why I was surprised such fanfic contracts exist on here. But as StenDuring says, knowing Webnovel, it’s doesn’t surprise me that they allow this. I don’t know whether those fanfic authors make any living income off their witting though. I highly doubt it.
Tomoyuki What happened to the amazon author btw, u didnt explain after that. Also u could easily sue and file it to b me taken down. Yes it takes times, while sueing will cost a little bit of money to initiate, but unlike pirate sites, since amazon is a sell company, u can easily gain the right back and most likely gain more $ than they gained from stealing your novel (since theres also a fine adding to the damages) if u do the procedures
JKaiya Nothing...Amazon refused to recognize my claim, even though I reported the book and the author. Said that they couldn't validate that I'm the real writer. I've informed my editor, and Webnovel as a company will send a DCMA because I'm not the only one who is a victim. At least 20 Webnovel stories have been stolen, plagiarized and sold on Amazon, so they are taking legal action, as far as I know.
- Edited
Your reply was crude and actually out of context.He in no way was rude he was just pointing out the price cost since new changes has almost doubled no one asked for free books but at the current rate of reading a book with 2k plus chapters and i use the word chapters loosely because 7 pages is hardly one the cost to finish each book is roughly 300 to 500 us dollars now if like me your reading 10 plus books your looking at 3000 to 6000 for a handful of books.
- Edited
nofeariheal I never accused anyone of being rude?
And uh, diegosilang did technically ask to read for free because he claims that earning SS took most of his precious time and therefore "it cannot be considered free reading." But since when is earning SS worth any money?
I don't go to a bookstore and demand that I am entitled a free book just because I have to pass through the ads and posters pinned up in the bookshop. That's just not logical. That's all I'm pointing out. Certainly never accused anyone of being rude, nor am I taking his quote out of context.
Also, your math doesn't make sense. What book has 2,000 chapters? If you're paying $300-500 for a single series, you're paying for 100 volumes of a single series, and that means each book costs $3-5. Look at a Japanese webnovel for example. When they get adapted as a light novel, does Dengeki Bunko publish hundreds of chapters into a single volume? No. They divide it to about 10-20 chapters per volume, and then sell each volume at a full price. If you want to collect the entire series of Arifureta, for example, you buy 15 volumes, and that's going to cost you about $150. Why do people keep making up this "single book costs $500" when you're actually purchasing multiple volumes of the same series?
Perhaps you can make a case for these series needing to be cheaper because the quality is not there or whatever, but it's utter BS and completely dishonest to claim that you're paying $500 for a single book when you're actually purchasing approximately 100 volumes worth of content for that price.
nofeariheal Your reply was crude and actually out of context.
If you were referring to Tomoyuki's response to this statement:
diegosilang Earning SS also took most of our precious time so it cannot be considered as free reading. We bear watching useless ads just to earn points.
Then, nah, it's not crude at all. It's the proper response for self-entitled people who think that their time watching ads is more valuable than the time these authors have put in writing these books.
- Edited
Tomoyuki You can't really compare webnovel.com books to japanese light novels, those are professionally edited, and translated, as well as come with artwork. On top of that, many light novels are based on webnovels that were and are currently still free to read. Such as Mushoku Tensei, Shield Hero, Arifureta, etc.
That being said, webnovel, and translators are free to charge whatever they feel comfortable with.
I'm with most authors here, if I understand correctly; I'm against being a "free" customer, paying for any service with only watching advertisements. Honestly, I think it ruins most content on the internet, news and creative works all the same.
I just know that I and many other consumers similar to me, isn't going to pay a cent to a service or work like this. If Privileged chapters were kept as it is now, but the rest of paid chapters could be accessed with a 1$ or 2$ per month subscription per novel I wanted to read (up until Privileged chapters), then I'd actually be able to afford this. But the current system seems to rely on Whales, which I and many, many other just aren't. I do pay for amateur work with a few subscriptions here and there, but I just can't see any reason nor make any justification for me to pay anything here.
I just hope those who currently do creative work here WN actually feel they earn what they should, because, from my perspective, I can't see how this system can possible be successful or at least be the most optimal.
This site's a cesspool of toxicity and entitlement. Tue 'authors' here are the prime example of self-deluded fools who think that their shit is worth is weight in gold. The biggest issue is that you're on a competitive platform competing against other competitive platforms that give better free shit FOR FREE. The people there are happy to do so, because of the community, because of the opportunity for free criticism, and because it gets their work out there. The quality on this site, does not support the business model they want to use... The price they want you to pay, simply isn't worth it; time is money, and mine is better spent elsewhere.
Xaio_Long I'm not comparing in terms of quality or price. I'm comparing in terms of quantity. I'm talking about math here.
In fact, I did say that you can make a case for these series needing to be cheaper because the quality is not there, something that you completely overlooked for some reason. What I'm annoyed is the people making claims about a single book costing $500 and then comparing it to professionally published books that they can purchase for $20. That's just dishonest.
Webzayne Tue 'authors' here are the prime example of self-deluded fools who think that their shit is worth is weight in gold.
I don't think my content is worth anything in terms of gold. And if you don't want to pay for it, DON'T. Simple as that. No one is forcing you to pay for it. If you don't think it's worth the money or cost to read, then, yeah, don't buy it. It's the same logic eveywhere else. I don't purchase light novels that I don't like or I think are badly written. But I'm not as deluded and entitled as you to demand that I have the right to read such light novels for free either.
Of course if you find something better to spend your time and money on, then go there. No one is stopping you. I don't see the logic of, "I can find something better to spend my time and money on elsewhere, so instead of going elsewhere, I demand that YOU RELEASE YOUR STORIES FOR FREE!"
By the way, as I said, I don't care about money. I encourage my readers to use free pass, even if I don't get anything out of it. Because I understand that my stuff isn't worth paying for. So I'm not as deluded and entitled as you are.
- Edited
"This site's a cesspool of toxicity and entitlement."
I agree. The readers here are the most entitled I've ever seen.
"Tue 'authors' here are the prime example of self-deluded fools who think that their shit is worth is weight in gold."
Some readers here are the prime example of self-absorbed bitch-babies who think their opinions matter to people who aren't paid by them.
"The biggest issue is that you're on a competitive platform competing against other competitive platforms that give better free shit FOR FREE."
This is your invitation to leave and read there instead.
"The people there are happy to do so, because of the community, because of the opportunity for free criticism, and because it gets their work out there."
Fuck you. Pay me.
"The quality on this site, does not support the business model they want to use... The price they want you to pay, simply isn't worth it; time is money, and mine is better spent elsewhere."
Bye Felicia
Webzayne
People like you are the reason that writers stop writing for 'free'. Seriously, why should we? When you feel entitled enough to demand free reading.
Yes, there are people like me that put their work up for free. I do so because wIwant to, not because weI come begging you for 'your criticism.' As soon as you start thinking that, I'll close up shop, because I could care less about the opinions of someone that only reads 'free shit' and not anything that is worth a bit of money for all the time and effort it takes to improve one's writing skills. I don't write for you. I write for me, whatever those motives may be.
I don't think any of us needs you to tell us for who or why we should write.
Webzayne
Okay then, to start things on:
******* ***** ***** *** ***** - put a bunch of random insults you could cut from your posts and put them there adressed to you, since I don't want to anger the ah allmighty @yaoyueyi on my case.
Now, the real part of the reply:
The greatest difrence between a readers like you (or in this case, any other) and authors like us, is that you look at the market from the customer point of view, while we actually study the situation way deeper, as we need to decide on our aproach in order to monetize our works. You can believe me or not, but most of the authors who wants to earn from their novels, are weighting their possibilities and choosing the one, most suitable for them.
Like with amazon and royal road - you know they put some free stuff to read, and thats where your knowledge and (hehe) expertise (wink wink to all those who are capable of percieving sarcasm here) ends... EXACTLY THERE.
On the other hand, any author who actually looks at writing as something that is not only a passion but also a mean to earn their keep, knows that for the most part, Royal Road is either a source of exposure for your patreon, or free site where you can get HARSH reviews, that actually can help you improve your story before you will set on the hard road of publishing on amazon.
People like you have no idea how costly hiring an editor is, how many diffrent kinds of editors your average story requires to be capable of earning on amazon, what are the steps of publishing your story there, what are the strategic moves you need to consider when you even think about this kind of option.
So, what you see, is just the surface of extremly deep topic, yet you pretend as you have the knowledge and right to speak about it as a whole?
Preposterous!
And now, to your post:
Webzayne This site's a cesspool of toxicity and entitlement.
And you are the prime example of those aspects. You are toxic, and you act entilted.
Webzayne Tue 'authors' here are the prime example of self-deluded fools who think that their shit is worth is weight in gold.
Generalisation, opinion. 0 facts. As always, someone who knows nothing pretends to be an expert about the topic. Most of the authors I know from WN, are looking at their stories with scorn and are feeling bad that they can't constantly keep rewriting every single chapter of theirs. For example, I'm the greatest critic of my own story, openly calling it trash because of the problems the initial 100 chapters has.
Webzayne you're on a competitive platform competing against other competitive platforms that give better free shit FOR FREE.
Yep, others give stuff for free. Some are doing so to gain exposure before locking ENTIRE story behind paywall, others do so to get free edits, and the great majority of those FREE SITES are just damned pirates, who earns from the stories they stole and thanks to the readers that are entilted just like you into thinking that they have the right to read them for free.
Webzayne The people there are happy to do so, because of the community, because of the opportunity for free criticism, and because it gets their work out there.
Nooooooope. Everyone outside of a few passionates, publish their stories for free ONLY because they have greater end goal in mind. Same like WN once was free for everyone who would put ANY effort into stockpiling their SS, some of the sites are aimed at the publishing of the EARLY DRAFT of the stories. Are they any better? Thats not for me to judge, but I would rather say that other sites simply are directed toward diffrent genres. The fact that you preffer dark fantasy over wuxia, doesn't mean wuxia are bad. It's just your taste.
Webzayne The quality on this site, does not support the business model they want to use...
And once again, you have all the right to say that, yet no authority to get anyone to listen to you.
Webzayne The price they want you to pay, simply isn't worth it;
Yet you are actually here, ranting about the entire fact. That simply proves that you are yet another sad troll who is unwilling to pay due costs of the entertainment so you decided to spill your poison on the forums, in order to improve your mood. Thats the very definition of toxic behaviour
Webzayne time is money,
And yet you are against authors trying to monetise the time they wasted on writing their stories, funny.
Webzayne and mine is better spent elsewhere.
Sayonara! No one will miss you here. And trust me, if I ever see you on this forum or on any novel out there, I will make sure to slam every single of my arguments back at your toxic face over and over again.
Now, begone. You are not welcome here.
4 days later
Not sure how my math is wrong when i pay several times a week pay 100$ for 5000 coins and at chapter rate between 7 to 11 coins lets say on average 8.5 coins thats about 588 3 to 4 page (chapters <<not really)and most of the books containing 1500 to 2500 chapters how exactly is that not 300 plus a book?
- Edited
To further validate my point since money is the issue on whether your able to open your mouth and voice an opinion to you self entitled clowns on this free forum...i sink 1k plus a month usa in buying coins and i find the random ass ads that pop up annoying..and they sometimes crash my dam app.