Webnovel.Forum

Fourclovers I'm also voicing on things that I don't think is right. Such as your attitude of thinking that you are entitled to things that you actually not. Just like Lilliny said, I am pointing out that just because you want something, just because you demand for something that you have received before, does not mean that you are entitled to it. I am not complaining that Webnovel is not paying enough, and I'm not complaining about "free readers". I am criticizing your self-entitled attitude of expecting writers to hand out mass releases and you believing that you "deserve" it. And worse, now you're admitting that you don't even pay writers money. You're admitting that you're just spending free spirit stones. So basically you are confessing to being greedy and demanding for mass releases without giving anything to writers in return. Support? You have the gall to act all high and mighty and claim that you support writers, that you deserve or are entitled to mass releases or daily updates when you don't even pay a single cent?

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about payment or money. If my readers give me gifts, vote for me, give me free and unpaid spirit stones - and I actually encourage that because I know they can't afford to pay sometimes, especially the younger readers - I will be eternally grateful to them. If they read my story, that's more than enough for me. I don't care about ranking or money or whatever. That's true support. If they have criticisms or feedback, I'll listen to them. Sometimes I explain to them why I won't change certain parts, or justify why I choose to write this way.

However, that doesn't mean they can turn on me and start making demands like "mass releases!" or tell me how to write my story or what to write. That's the difference between entitlement and support. I write for fun, I have a real job, I have to study for graduate school, if I can't write multiple chapters and do a mass release, then I can't. You'll have to deal with it, not pester me. When I signed the contract, the contract never stipulated that I must endure harassment or fufil the demands of my readers. Just because I sign a contract, that doesn't mean I am beholden to the wishes and demands of my readers. I will write what I want to write, because that's why I write in the first place.

I come fom Royal Road, so I'm used to writing for free. I don't even have a Patreon account, and I had never asked for donations. I signed the contract in hopes of getting a webcomic or anime adaptation one day, not because I want money. So your logic makes no sense - Royal Road and Wattpad are NOT examples of online stories where authors get paid. Royal Road doesn't pay writers in the first place, I have no idea where you got that from. By the way, I left Royal Road because of harassment, because people were rating my story 0.5 stars daily, I received threats and insults online on Discord from Royal Road readers, and they basically kicked me out because they hated my story. Since they hated me so much, I might as well leave. At least here I don't have to deal with daily 0.5 ratings. Whatever the case, I - and I believe most writers as well - don't care if our stories or "writing careers" never kicked off or if we don't get popular. It makes no difference at all. We have been writing on various websites since before you were in diapers, kid, and if our "writing careers" didn't kick off, we would have continued writing as a hobby without making any money. And since you admit that you don't pay us any money, I don't see why you're acting so entitled. We get no benefits from your so-called support - if anything, your support seems detrimental. So what if your "support" kicks off our writing career? We don't get any benefit from having our writing careers kicked off like this. You don't even pay us - so how exactly do we benefit? We get no money from your support. All we get is...acknowledgement, which is what we would get with or without the contract, even if we post on other sites. All we get is the information that there are people reading our stuff, and we are happy. But it doesn't provide any tangible form of benefit. So why exactly should we be beholden or "grateful" to you? Whether you read or don't read, "support" or don't "support" us, our situation remains the same. We get no money, we get absolutely nothing other than self-satisfaction. We didn't write just so we can get pestered by self-entitled readers demanding for mass releases. We started writing as a hobby, and we couldn't care less about votes, comments or shares. If anything, this stupid ranking or voting or sharing thing creates a toxic atmosphere where writers backstab each other (it happened in Royal Road very often where people manipulate votes and deliberately downvote and rate 0.5 on other stories to lower their ranking so that their own stories get artificially boosted in ranking). Hell, this stupid ranking system was what happened to me when people decided to harass me for writing a similar story (the fans of I Shall Rule the Heavens thinking it would be a good idea to jump onto my story I Shall Steal the Heavens and flooding it with negative reviews and comments so that their favorite story can jump above mine in the rankings). Most of us just want to write, not to participate in some inane popularity contest, win votes and earn money.

By the way, most writers on Royal Road don't do daily releases or mass releases. You'll be lucky if they update their stories once every 2-3 days, or maybe once a week.

Also...this will make for a great read for someone like you: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

To put it succintly, like Neil Gaiman, Webnovel writers, premium or not, are not your bitches. We are not machines. And as I pointed out, just because you pay us (and you admitted that you do not), that doesn't mean you are entitled to us serving you with mass releases every 3 months or so. Just because you support us, that doesn't mean you are entitled to some special service on our part.

You support writers because you enjoy their stories. You want to read more. Nothing more, nothing less. But that support does not beholden writers to serve you like slaves and deliver mass releases like a robot laboring overtime in a factory. Often, writers go on hiatus, drop their stories or give up halfway without finishing their stories because there is no incentive for them to continue writing. The donations, the payments via spirit stones, the support from readers is what motivates them to continue and finish the story. If they are receiving some form of monetary reward, then they will feel obligated to finish the story instead of irresponsibly dropping it halfway. However, that is completely different from demanding mass releases from them. You are paying for the chapters or the story they write, not for "mass releases." As I said above, you wouldn't care if a customer is paying you, if he demands that you serve him for 10 extra hours even though your contract only stipulates 8 working hours, you're going to be upset and rightly so. Because your human rights have been violated. So what makes you think you get to make such unreasonable demands of others?

Do not mistake extra services for entitlement. Do not mistake generosity for obligation. Do not mistake charity for duty. Sometimes we reward our readers for their patience with mass releases when we happen to have a vacation or a holiday or a break, and it just so happens we can write more than usual. But you should not be taking such gifts for granted.

I don't give a damn about the contract or underpayment or whatever. That's not why I'm pissed. I'm pissed because of your sense of entitlement and you having the gall to make demands of us without understanding the time, sacrifices and efforts we writers have to make just to ensure you have a daily update, and the audacity to think that you deserve mass releases just because you "support" us. And now, after you even admitted that you don't pay a single cent, you are just making yourself look even worse than before.

Fourclovers BUT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT SUCCESS!!!!
What is this "success" that you talk about?! You think Webnovel writers earn as much as singers or actors? What drugs are you on, man? What exactly does your support do for us?! NOT A SINGLE THING! Your support provides no tangible benefits, no monetary rewards, nothing! You admit to not paying a single cent AT ALL!

So why are you bragging about how important your support is when it does NOTHING for us?!

Also, fans don't make demands of celebrities. Just because you want your favorite singer to hold an extra concert every 2-3 months instead of every year does not mean you are entitled to it! What you want and what you are entitled to are two different things! You are paying to participate in their concerts, not paying for the right to demand more concerts! If you have paid for a ticket to their concerts, then yes, you are entitled to a seat in the concert hall. BUT THAT'S ALL YOU ARE ENTITLED TO. Nothing more. You are not entitled to demand that the singer hold an all-night concert when she is only supposed to hold a two-hour long concert! Just because you are a fan who supports her doesn't mean you are entitled to make demands of her, asking her to perform an encore until the next morning! She's human, she needs to rest! You have to distinguish between entitlement and want! And just because fans demand that this actor acts in that movie does not mean they are entitled to have that demand fulfilled. You buy a ticket to watch a movie that your favorite actor is in. You are entitled to a seat in the cinema, or you are entitled to take home the magazine or poster that you buy and pin it on your wall. But you are not entitled to demand that the actor act in this movie, or that movie. Get that through your head. Yes, singers and actors are nothing without their fans, but their fans have absolutely no business acting like self-entitled jerks and making ridiculous demands of them!

Do you stalk an idol and follow her everywhere she goes because you are her fan? "But I'm entitled to! I support her and attend her every concert! Therefore she is obligated to devote more of her personal time to entertaining me!" HELL NO!

Nobody is dismissing the support of free readers. No one is saying free readers are bad. No one is condemning free readers or complaining about free readers not donating money to them. WE ARE JUST SAYING THAT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MAKE DEMANDS AND ACT LIKE SELF-ENTITLED JERKS WHO THINK THEY DESERVE MORE THAN WHAT THEY PAID FOR (and you never even paid for anything)!

Do I appreciate the support of fans and readers? Hell, yeah. Do I care if they don't spend a single cent and read my stories for free? Hell, no. Do I enjoy reading their comments? Depends, if they are happy, I'm happy, if they insult me, of course I won't enjoy it. AND YOUR SELF-ENTITLED DEMANDS FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF INSULTS BECAUSE IT SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU DISREGARD ME AS A PERSON AND HOW YOU ONLY THINK OF ME AS A BLOODY MACHINE TO CHURN OUT MASS RELEASES AT YOUR BLOODY CONVENIENCE. That's what I'm annoyed at.

I'm not dissing the support of free readers, and I actually am very happy with their support. What I take issue with is your self-entitled attitude of thinking you have every right to make demands of us WHEN YOU DO NOT.

Fourclovers
You didn't help the author make up his idea, write his characters, plot, or make his world. You arrived, after all that was done. You go in, and once you like it you support it (which is good!). But, once you run out of chapters to read, you want more. You aren't there in the room with the author, helping him write. You are just... asking for things to happen faster? You need to ask yourself: quality or quantity? quantity or quality? If you want quantity, just run those Chinese novels through google translate and read them like that. Or, even better, run them through google translate, edit the shit English, and then post it to novelupdates! If you want quality, you. must. wait.

All of this we're talking about, is WORK. It's hard WORK, that takes TIME, and ENERGY. You seem to not understand your place in an author's world; no, in an artist's world. Tomoyuki explained it better than me: you are there to support, but you do not help in the process of WORK.

That is the absolute HARDEST part of when creating an output, that you just don't seem to understand. Sorry about the brain worms thing, just annoying to read you make excuses for your behavior.
Also... I'm pretty sure tomo is a guy? Am i wrong there?

Fourclovers I am a guy, not a girl.

The contract does not get us anything, really. It makes no difference whether we are contracted writers or not, other than...I dunno, having a fancy title and the potential to get money. No, you do not have the right to make demands of me. You did not "help" us" get any contracts. All you did was support the story that you liked. You added my (or someone else's) story to your collection, not because you want to help us get contracts, but because you enjoyed my (or someone else's) story and you look forward to reading more, you want to be alerted when the next update comes, and you want to kill some time or be entertained. I wrote a chapter, I delivered, I gave you something to read. That's all you are entitled to, really. I couldn't care less about the contract, it does literally nothing for me. And don't kid yourself when you think that your individual vote somehow makes a difference in helping me get a contract - hell, you didn't vote or whatever for my story to get a contract, you voted or whatever because you like my story. If it gets a contract, yay. If not, then who cares?

I don't even know how many views I get, nor do I care. I only care about the readers who comment on my stories, and even then, they have no right to make demands of me, and I tell them that when they try to tell me what I should or should not write. The views are grossly inflated anyway - 90% of the views are either by repeated viewings (because the more chapters you have, you divide the views by the number of chapters), or by people who read the first chapter or first few chapters and drop it. The numbers of views are meaningless. I'm more concerned by actual comments, but even then, I respond and tell people why I write the way I write, why I'm not going to pander to them or change according to their wants. Just because you comment on my story doesn't mean you are entitled to tell me how to write it.

I am speaking in general, I am not referring to myself specifically. I am using my personal experience to illustrate why you should not treat all writers like that. I am using my own case as an anecdote. I'm not accusing you of criticizing me. And I am not condemning you for being a free reader - it's clear that you did not read what I wrote. I said I am criticizing you not because you are reading for free, not because you do not pay a single cent, but because you are acting self-entitled and think you have the right to make demands when you do not. That is all. nobody cares if you read for free, and nobody is demanding you to pay for anything. Just like you have no right to demand anything of writers, writers do not have the right to demand that you pay or donate to them to show your sign of "support."

I am also not talking about privilege. I couldn't care less about privilege at all. Some writers embrace it because they make more money (and who can blame them?), many readers hate it because it costs money (and who can blame them?). I'm on the fence on that, and I don't mind if someone can figure out a better system. What I take issue with is not privilege, not you being a free reader, but you being so self-entitled. Nothing more, nothing less. Unless you can understand that, there really isn't much else I can say. Go read the link to Neil Gaiman's journal post that I pasted in my post above.

@Cantiara You are right. I should probably stop wasting my time on this.

Cantiara
Yes I agree! Agree to disagree! That’s what I thought I wrote in the earlier post. I still stand by what I said before. So I’m not gonna reiterate why I think that way. Thanks for not mocking me, most arguments like this turns out rough.

Sorry, I didn’t know you were a boy. A mistake on my end.

Readers did help contribute to authors getting a contract. Views & votes matter for webnovel to take into consideration of getting that contract. But of course the author has to write a good book to get readers.

We’ll agree to disagree like what the other user wrote. Cause I still stand by what I wrote earlier. And what you wrote isn’t that wrong either. If you can’t see it my way it’s fine. I still feel free readers should get a little something from time to time. (Not aimed at you but to others).

I can’t change your mind and you can’t change mine. So let’s just end it here. Though I’m sure more people will be chiming into this post cause of what I wrote before.