I'm reposting this here because it's pertinent. It's hilarious to expect premium for free to last much longer. Sure it gives QI some talking points at the moment.

I don't really expect Premium for Free to last for longer than another 3-6 months for most novels.

A. Qidian's primary concern is profit. Why would they continue giving it away? Premium for Free is just a temporary measure to get existing readers used to premium, as well as to allow QI to punt the dreaded 'Pay Wall' outcry from the translation scene, especially for novels with slow to intermediate release rates.

It will only last until the majority of bonus stones that users have accrued over the last 90 days completely expire. Once those pools are gone, poof no more Premium for Free chapters for most novels. After that, QI will be able to ensure most SS spent are actually paid for.

B. Another thing about Premium for Free. Novels with fast release rates, like Immortal Mortal for example. Let's say you as a reader just found the novel and read up to the Premium chapters. You get your 7 Premium for free chapters, and then decide to continue reading. You read 100 premium chapters (at a cost of about 1200 SS($20 currently). You then decide to wait for the next free chapter. How long will you have to wait? Answer: Over 14 weeks for Immortal Mortal to reach your current reading point. The point being, if you are a daily reader of novels, Premium for Free is just an illusion, it doesn't benefit you much at all.

Where this changes is for a new reader a year or two down the road. Why would Qidian continue giving away 365 chapters a year for premium novels? That just doesn't make sense for a company so focused on monetary gain.

C. Premium for Free also doesn't make sense long term if QI really expects translators to switch from a paid flat rate per chapter to a share of the premium spirit stone revenue.

D. The end goal for QI is to have an exact duplicate to how Qidian.com works. New novels will get a shorter and shorter amount of free chapters before they are put behind a pay-wall. And there is no doubt that a pay-wall is forthcoming.

    CKtalon How many people were on Mystical Journey patreon page??? or for other novels you mentioned here. The comparison you gave is good but did you also notice that there were less than 10 total patrons for Mystical journey and <100(my guess) for others(I didn't check their patreon page since I never read those novels). Even if they are very popular 1000 would be the maximum number. SO are you trying to compare something which only 1% or less than 1% could afford with something which 100% have to afford and then saying it is little cheaper or most people can afford. They can't. And Do you think that out of all the patreons everyone was supporting at least 3 novels and with similar to the numbers you have given?

    I don't say that there is need to completely remove premium but there is need to make some changes. There is a need to make changes to the premium system. Especially making it so that 1chap/day is unlocked for everyone even if you have already unlocked 10chaps already by paying. Which is the main problem why most are against premium because once you unlock chaps if you don't have ss you need to wait for for months before the novels catches up.

        checkm8

        A is nothing more than pure speculation. I refuse to talk about it because I could argue WW will definitely introduce some form of premium currency as well and there's no way to prove I'm wrong aside from their track record, which to me adds an element of subjective opinion into this. I will only speak about facts. Sorry.

        B is absolutely the same thing as patreon. If you stop subscribing to patreon, You have to wait till they catch up, in the mean time you've already "reaped" the benefits of what you paid for, unless the implication is that paying for advance chapters isn't the actual logic of Patreon is being challenged. Which is 100% stupid, because the counter argument is what am I paying even $1/month for? There has to be tangible benefit, and the benefit lowers in value over time because that chapter that you paid for will literally become free in one month. Arguably there's the problem of needing to wait longer for Qidian to catch up with free chapters but you misunderstand something greatly, this does not lower the value of the chapters you paid for, in fact it increases the value because you're allowed to read an advance chapter... in your example, over 14 weeks in advance In other words, you are ahead of other people BY 14 weeks.

        C is the same as A, speculation.

        D is ALSO speculation.

        Back to what I'm ACTUALLY here though though. I double checked the spreadsheet and it looks accurate unless there's some other way of getting SS that isn't mentioned. I did have some errors on the free SS stuff because I wanted to calculate free $/day but dropped the idea in the end, shrugs Serves me right for doing this and not paying full attention to it. The numbers should be accurate now though unless someone can source me lower prices for SS somehow. Although I'll say that remember I have put in the stipulation of following their chapter/week, which is woefully wrong for a lot of novels due to mass releases. (i.e expect the actual cost a reader to be paying to be less than what I overstated here on purpose.)

            checkm8

            No worries, your lack of tangible arguments is duly noted.

            ... No, I'm actually being serious. Bring up a tangible argument that doesn't rely on subjective opinions and is based on something that Qidian is actually doing rather than just hearsay or thoughts on what they "MUST" be doing despite having no backing beyond "Qidian is a business and will definitely hurt us".

                Thormented However, even though my points are speculation, I'm pretty confident on several of those points.

                It's also not pure speculation since we have an existing model to which we can compare; Qidian.com. It's become increasingly clear that is the future direction QI is choosing to pursue.

                I can say that confidently since they are:

                A. Not pursuing an Ad-based revenue model
                B. Choosing to eliminate patreon's for TL's instead of moving them in-house ala Wuxiaworld.

                    Thormented You would have read that 13weeks in advance if there was no premium instead of 14 even without paying.

                    And BTW patreon gave the advanced chaps but didn't make up those chaps out of the free chaps.

                        Thormented Your math needs working :P

                        50 SS = US$0.99
                        1SS = US$0.99/50 = US$0.0198

                        What you are calculating is what $1 is in SS.

                        So for instance, your TMW number for stone/monthly is 280.
                        Cost per month is 280/50 * 0.99 = $5.544

                            Thormented Your last point suggests that it is ok to hold on chaps and make them paid and then ask the readers to be happy that you're 5 or 10 months in advance from others. Thats funny

                                checkm8

                                CKtalon

                                Thormented

                                KingBiBiK the problem is not just cost of SS, but mainly due to the way they implemented it.
                                Their way of monetizing is extremely taunting to average readers and thus make us dissatisfied.

                                Many games have the same type of monetization, just that they are clear that they are aiming for whales (in simpler terms big rich people who love to spend).
                                What the SS do is give a false hope. A hope that you can eventually spend little money and catch up the rest with daily login. Something that traps and makes us angry as we get to know this will not work and we cannot pay more.

                                So firstly we have to realize the premium chapter are not basically meant to us unless we are willing to spend a good amount of money on that novel every month. The premium is basically same as patreon system but without any dividers or separations (A huge benefit as well a problem in disguise).
                                Secondly, if you realize that you are not able to spend the staggering amount on a monthly basis, draw the line with the free chapter that gets unlocked every day as the upper limit and only unlocks the next if is an important moment. Then wait a day. (This never works with a good novel since we get tempted to unlock the next one).

                                Man, I love quoting myself lol.
                                Ok back to my opinion on Premium.

                                Premium and Patreon system is fundamentally same as well as different.
                                From what I see Patreon is like support the translator kinda system in which willing readers donate money for motivating translators to work faster (i.e more releases - something I would love to do if I am a writer) and get some rewards based on the level of support they provide (in terms of advance reading option based on how much you pay).
                                1) It has clear distinction about who gets what. You pay this, you get this. The tiers are expensive for average readers. Still, they can contribute by giving $3 a month as a way of saying thanks.
                                2) It has a more emotional background. It is a form of support more than reward.
                                3) The free chapters are always released at a normal pace. You are only ahead of X amount of chapters and you stay that X amount throughout.
                                4) Can always back down and still continue as a free reader easier. In most scenarios, easy to catch up.

                                Premium makes this distinction simpler and nonexistent that in a way complicates things.
                                1) Anyone can get access to any advance chapters as long you use SS to unlock.
                                2) So you can skip ahead if you want.
                                3) For any patreons who believes, I pay and I need to get more. This system works better since they can stay miles ahead of free chapters by paying.
                                4) A use of currency. This generalizes things and gives you more freedom to choose.
                                5)7 chap free is not a bad rate. And faster premium chapter release rate. A very high rate...

                                Now the problems.
                                1.Patreon is costly. But it is more like a donation so it's justifiable.
                                2.It only applies to a particular novel or 2 of the translator.
                                3. The author who the work actually belongs to may not get the proper benefit.
                                4. The benefit is not much of a benefit. Since you only get access to advance chapters, unlike the premium where you get more and more.

                                1. Premium lures you like an addictive drug and Makes you spent since its a new currency and open to everyone.
                                2. Get a free reader and lower tier payer trapped in the system. (THE BIGGEST PROBLEM) if you are like the low tier who like to a pay like $1-5 a novel in a month and wants to read daily. This frustrates you since as the premium chapters accumulate you felt stuck. Cannot read multiple premium titles on a daily basis and keep them uptodate. (But if you count the bonus SS, I find premium is litle cheaper)
                                3. The feeling of 'left behind'. Patreon made the distinction clear and does not give free and less paying patreons the feeling that the story is ahead of them like premium.

                                Every system has its own faults.
                                I personally don't find premium as a bad program. The downside I have is, I don't feel like buying SS to get trapped in as I know myself and I cannot keep up with the accumulating premium chaps and buy the SS required.
                                I don't want to wait and catch up instead I would prefer the Pff free chapter to be released from where I left off. But I know it's not gonna happen.
                                So I got no problem freely using 7 free chapters.

                                (ed: By the time I finished typing there are many other comments here lol)

                                          KingBiBiK 3. The author who the work actually belongs to may not get the proper benefit.

                                          Just a heads up, Translators do not profit from premium unless they decide to forgo the flat rate they are currently paid.

                                              Of course, the whole discussion of whether or not authors received a portion of the revenue from patreon could have been addressed by moving it in-house ala wuxiaworld. But of course, QI decided to ignore that revenue route.

                                                checkm8
                                                By the way how do you know? Did someone talk abt it?

                                                It was in the leaked contract in the forums that the company has all right to do stuff that can potentially lower any sort of income. So the team planned this from long ago. The percent share from SS above flat rate is highly unrealistic.
                                                Only 2-3 works like LoHP and RtW has a chance to benefit if they every opt out of flat rate for percent sharing.

                                                So I think it is highly helpful for other translators to get the flat rate. In a way, I kinda agree that the translators should be treated like an employee of the author than giving complete freedom and ownership to the work. The translated work is only 25% or less theirs (But the work they pick affects them). This way they get paid based on their work quality and does not get wrecked when they novel they picked is trash.

                                                A translator is like a gambler who wins big if they got the right one (given the condition that they knew how to translate properly and knows English)

                                                This way at least we are getting faster release rate including the premium ones (and yea in some cases, low quality).

                                                    KingBiBiK The TL revenue was something clearly stated by translators on Discord.

                                                    As far as translators are concerned. Translations are considered an original work under copyright law and are 100% the owner of the translator. So basically, an author/publisher could cease & desist a translator from publishing their translations but they would not own that translation.

                                                    Unless of course there was a contract between the author/publisher and the translator.

                                                    Of course, we are now seeing that a contract agreement between QI and anyone is basically worth about the cost of toilet paper. It's pretty apparent that QI could give a shit about contracts or even licensing agreements.

                                                    This is nothing new btw:
                                                    In 2017 Qidian's parent company was sued for breach of contract with a partner Migu Reading.

                                                    http://v.techweb.com.cn/finance/2017-08-08/2570128.shtml

                                                    A rough translation here:
                                                    https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/yuewen-qidian-is-being-sued-for-reneging-their-contract-with-a-chinese-company.44643/

                                                    So basically Qidian isn't exactly known for keeping their contracts. It wouldn't be a surprise if they start short changing TL's later down the road, if they decided to go more towards a percentage instead of flat rate.


                                                        checkm8

                                                        Lonelytree

                                                        Forgot to say this.

                                                        Yes. Despite how big Qidian is or how much of a contribution or effect it has on the entire webnovel community, here in the English field WW is sacred.
                                                        It is like ancestral home to many of us who started way back and had our first experience there. So no need to mention how people react when someone sullies or do something against ancestors..right. Despite how right they are, it is not viewed nicely.

                                                        So best case scenario, I prefer not to see any issues like this between them. I don't mind them competing properly. I read everywhere that Chinese values Face and I do not know why these actions that demean face without any benefits is necessary.

                                                        IT IS JUST SOME NOVELS. We got many more to come and go. So why can't the officials give it a rest and ignore it.

                                                              checkm8 You might also want to see what Migu did that resulted in what China Literature did.

                                                              http://www.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/SEHK/2017/1108/LTN20171108066.pdf

                                                              It is the same thing with WW. Once the contract is broken, there is no reason why Qidian has to play nice. WW did the same thing with Patreon. They were supposed to provide chapters for free but they used Patreon/paywalls to earn money from chapters.

                                                              Similarly, they aren't allowed to do any in-house advanced chapters functionality. Any 'sharing' of money earned from that in-house Patreon is against the authorization contract and Qidian will not accept it.

                                                              RWX has now claimed that it's the translators who put the chapters behind Patreon payments and not WW's fault. Strange how the CEO of WW is doing the same thing.

                                                              RWX also claims that Qidian allowed it during investment agreement talks which would have been fine IF it was actually signed.

                                                              A proper authorization would be something like this:

                                                                  checkm8 I hate contracts, but what can you do?

                                                                  You are right. The translation is considered a derivative work and the translator has ownership of it. But....translating without permission of the author is worse than plagiarising. So before translating, the translator has to make a deal with the publisher or author and negotiate benefits. In most scenarios, they are asked to give away their copyright of the finished product to the author for the right to translate and royalties or a fixed fee.

                                                                  If I remember right in a traditional printed book, the translator can get less than 5% of the royalties compared to the author who gets abt 25%. Just that they have to ask clearly for global sales lol.

                                                                  In this case, they have a fixed rate. And how much the contract holds them, I don't know.

                                                                  If one day, they can get kicked out of the novel when Qidian feel like it? Maybe. Basically, I do not think there is job guarantee but a cooperation on a contract that can be scary to a normal person and bendable to a clever lawyer firm.

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