This is a place to discuss that thread. Perhaps a Mods could 'delete' the discussion if it was to be stickied.
Pledge of Authors Discussion
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You're too smart, MasterRabbink! :D (Though I don't mind if people can see my opinion.)
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yansusustories This actually isn't the place to discuss this since you only want to pledge but ... I doubt that what you describe would happen. The hell, I've seen authors plagiarize other novels (and I'm not talking about webnovel authors here but authors that were published by publishing houses and charged money for 'their' work) and after a week or two of shitstorm and then lying low for a bit they just published another book and nobody really cared.
So I doubt it would be different here just because a novel was dropped. After all, that seems less grave to me but maybe that's because I'm an author. And even if readers were complaining the authors could still say "Yeah, but you see: I didn't drop it. It was just on hiatus, I'm still continuing it."
Some readers would see. For example, I loved to check an author past work, before I committing fully. When I saw authors who often dropped their novel. I read but didn't hope too much. In RR, I ONLY read novel with the pledge.
The key is the advertisement. It would show to readers that Originals could be read. Your time reading won't be wasted. It is gentlemen agreement. A successful completion of pledge would add a boost for author. Image, when one go premium, premium reader could see what is under an author's history.
Dropped novels is like Dropped Translation (Shit! I have bad memory of it.). It would create a bad taste in the readers. For example when I read in RR, I only read the authors who had made a pledge. Nothing worse than a novel which ending you couldn't know.
I prefer bad ending that no ending. It is easy to end a novel. 1 chapter is enough. Yet, It would be 'not satisfying'. However, the reader got an ending. For example ISSTH ending was floating and open ended. WMW ending also mentioned higher rank, etc. Bakuman ending was a bit cut but it got an ending.
A Hiatus is a different question. I actually consider any novel above 1 month is dropped and removed it from my library. I think this is the place where @TheAdventurer could improve. A mod may need to make a better thread.
I actually preferred RR community with MOD following up the original authors. To give support, etc. They also added time limit of last update before a novel put into 'questionable'/Yellow Card. If the novel didn't get updated. Before finally put the author into ban list/Red Card. There is also the requirement of certain number of words/chapter to prevent new author still in high spirit sign the pledge.
I think WN should embrace the pledge (made them into their own). It cost nothing for them. Advertise the novels, since it would prevent disappointed readers. (If a new slot for reading is impossible, put it as a banner. Make it into a non-comment thread in this forum, locked and only a mod could add a novel.) Original with Completion Pledge, etc.).
Some readers avoided originals because of how easy for it to be dropped. Other was because of quality of writing, but only time could improve. RR took 5 years before their writer become goods. Those writers with experience were here writing good novels too.
MasterRabbink Well, if there are requirements added like the ones you mentioned, then I guess it wouldn't be totally pointless and could even be a good thing. I can't compare with RR, though, since I don't read there :D The unfortunate thing is, I doubt we'll ever get something like that here on webnovel officially. Not for the next year or so at least if we consider what other issues there are already. sigh So, if anything, then it'll be something the authors make up.
My question here would be: Would all authors agree to the conditions?
I'm totally for a basic requirement (though I'd prefer words because a chapter number says nothing) but that would also raise the question how many should that be? 20k? 50k? For some people, the latter might be half of their novel already, even though webnovel definitely is targeted more towards really long novels.
MasterRabbink Absolutely, right, although my other novels aren't dropped, the inability to update equates it as suc, but still i will be continuing it, but just one work after another
Hmm, this pledge only give author obligation but there's no right or some reward from doing it.
Let's say there's an author who keep updates his/her work but by doing that she/he also keep getting bad review from people who dislike his/her work. is there any meaning to continue his/her work anymore?
At the moment on webnovel it seems like only contracted authors can be trusted not to drop, but I think I read somewhere that Baisiwa was actually contracted before he left. Not sure if that’s true or not though.
Something like the pledge would be nice, as a lot of original novels that were in my library haven’t updated in ages.
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LastEmailDeleted Lol. Even translation dropped. That is contracted work. I believe WN actually could hire a ghost author to replace a missing author? Perhaps people who had contract could answer.
The pledge is still gentleman agreement. However you know the author put their pen name at risk by making the pledge. It is better than nothing.
Lord_HaarT Yes. This is why this could work if a Webnovel admin/mod took this project.
The easiest they could reward the original authors was by making a banner. Linked it to a forum where the first post was edited every month by the moderator for list of novel and perhaps their genre.
A better was to give a special slot like for Daily or Trending. However Webnovel has to ask for harsher penalty like banned account (banned from making a novel, but your reader library won't have problem)? The author could open a new account but the pen name will die. A Red Card.
WN would need to pick a staff/admin to follow up novel which failed to get to their schedule and put them in yellow card section.
It is work, but it would allow Original section to have some finished novels. It is good for WN. With Premium reducing free readers options they needed Original to pick the void.
yansusustories I don't understand word requirements? I only thought about schedule release and compare it with the actualization. RR pledge require the author to write/update at least once a week.
MasterRabbink I was talking about what you wrote above:
MasterRabbink There is also the requirement of certain number of words/chapter to prevent new author still in high spirit sign the pledge.
If there is no basic requirement for signing the pledge, then I see lots of people who are new to writing doing the pledge. And then, two weeks or maybe one week later they'll realize how much work it is and that readers won't just flag to them only because of such a pledge and then they'll regret pledging anything. Especially if the consequences are severe.
yansusustories A mod need to 'monitor', it will be a hard thing at first. Some will fail. (RR pledge also had some fail).
This is a thread of discussion. Readers also could help in making what is a minimum chapters before a novel could be included.
Lord_HaarT Yes, I think so, too. And not even just getting bad reviews. Even lacking feedback could be a reason to question this.
Just my own experience with that: I'm writing two projects atm and I've been updating both of them daily since the start. (1 with 1 chapter, 1 with 2 chapters a day) I've done that even without any pledge just because I like the projects and want them to move forward faster and naturally because I can understand how hard it can be to wait for a novel you like to update. I'm a reader, too, after all.
Now, here's the thing: My second project (the 1 chapter-thingy) is doing pretty well right now but it was on the daily update section last week so I guess it's because of that. My main project (the 2 chapters a day one) isn't doing that well. There are hardly any comments anymore and not just for the last one or two days but for more than a week already, it actually feels more like two, actually. The number of votes (not that I'd trust that, there are so many alternative accounts flying around that it might just be 3 people voting for the book even if it looks more) has gone back and I'm at 'only' 16 reviews even though I'm at 260k+ words already. I'd think that's enough for people to form an opinion.
So, I've been updating daily (without a pledge) and that for quite a bit of time. I feel like I've done all I can. I still don't get much feedback or acknowledgment. If I didn't have some experience with writing before coming to webnovel and wasn't hyped up about the project, why would I continue it? Honestly, I do think about changing up what's my main and what's my secondary project because it naturally is more fun to do the project where I can actually interact with readers. I wouldn't drop it, though, because I really love the project and want to see it through to the end but I think that a lot of original authors would lose their motivation and I can totally understand that. It's hard not to.
So, yes, I think the pledge should do something for the authors, too, and not just restrict them. Especially if there would be a harsh punishment for actually dropping a novel.
MasterRabbink I feel like that is way too harsh. After all, we don't get paid here and like Lord_HaarT said the author might not get anything in terms of reader feedback (despite whatever webnovel might do about it). What if an unpopular novel is dropped? (And who decides if an ending is an ending, btw? It might just be an open end for the author that the readers don't accept as an ending.) And what if there are circumstances the author couldn't even influence?
Banning someone because of that for a lifetime (If I understood you correctly) is way too harsh, imho.
Let's imagine the following:
Someone has been a good author all the time. He or she updated every or every other day and the readers were happy. Now, that author might get into an accident (or starts going on a cruise if you don't want a gruesome example) and is unable (because of his grave injuries or because there's no wifi on the ship) to post updates.
Now, if we take your guidelines then after a month, his novel would count as dropped (both a stay in the hospital or a cruise could take that long) and the author would be banned from inkstone. He returns after a month and ... Oh. Now he can't do anything. He's just banned.
Alright, so, looking at it a bit more closely, he could have told people beforehand that he's going on a cruise. The question would be: How would the yellow card be issued? Automatically? Or would there be some mod that goes around and checks? I doubt a mod would have that much time, so it's probably going to be the former. Now, the author could complain "I told them, so why am I banned?" - What do we do then? Maybe we'll unban him. We're nice people, after all. Then again, the same rights for everyone, his colleague in the hospital is banned, too, after all. So let's just ban them both.
Well, at least the author on the cruise could complain. The one in the hospital can't because, honestly, does he have to show his medical records to the readers or the mod that would be responsible? I certainly wouldn't want to do that if it was me. I mean, they're not my employer, there's my real name etc on it and that's not some data I'd like to give to some random people.
And here comes another problem then: I think we'd all agree that banning an author that was in the hospital because of some accident and couldn't update because of that (if it's bad he can't even make an announcement) would be really mean and shouldn't be done. But we can't force the guy to show his medical record. So, we can't actually check whether he was in the hospital or just plain lazy.
But then again, there can always be things that keep him from writing. Maybe there's some big thing going on in the company he's working at and he needs to work overtime for a few weeks and really can't gather the energy to write? If that was an author who only updated once a week (there are people like that), then it wouldn't be outrageous if he didn't update in a month. That would only be 4 chapters he didn't update, after all.
So, to cut the long story short (might be a bit late for that 
) I feel like this needs to be seriously considered. The punishment is too harsh, imho, and we lack some guidelines to make sure it would be sensibly implemented.
We should, at least I think so, also keep in mind that at the end of the day the people writing here are doing this as a hobby and often have a job or other liabilities that might keep them from writing for a while.
At least, I think there shouldn't be a permanent ban. An author might just have struggled with one project and that so severely that he couldn't even write an ending. Or he just wanted to have it pending for a while and was sure he'd find a good way to continue later on. Considering he's the author, I feel like he should have the right to do so.
yansusustories So, yes, I think the pledge should do something for the authors, too, and not just restrict them. Especially if there would be a harsh punishment for actually dropping a novel.
So far no punishment, other than bad reputation (This Pledge is written and people could 'archive' that.). A good and easy option was to put a 'cleaned' thread on the banner.
I think the Webnovel staffs were busy with... the trouble event, so any new idea would need to wait.
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yansusustories Banning someone because of that for a lifetime (If I understood you correctly) is way too harsh, imho.
The Ban if the webnovel give more promotion. It is a suggestion. The ban only for the pen-name account. It would add guarantee for the reader.
yansusustories who decides if an ending is an ending, btw?
Author. Author is the one who make. Bakuman had an ending. Naruto is an ending. Like or dislike, it is the ending of that manga. Readers won't get false hope or a novel suddenly disappear. If you story unpopular, make a 'fast' ending. It is bad... but at least a story get conclusion. For example ' The Overpowered System'. Some readers regret that, but that was the 'vision' of the author.
yansusustories author might get into an accident
This is why we need to have "Yellow Card" Section, where the moderator had to try contacting the author. The author should banned from creating new novels, continuing old ones should not be a problem. Thank you for correction. Gwahahaha. I don't think it would be implemented. They need to modify inkstone. Just a suggestion.
yansusustories How would the yellow card be issued? Automatically? Or would there be some mod that goes around and checks?
Impossible. A mod would need to do that. This is what Webnovel had to do. They had make a Dao system.
People in Facebook screaming to become a MOD. Webnovel already gave Facebook Moderators some Spirit Stones. Why they didn't give some 'readers' who scoured some novel also some free Spirit Stones (the number is high if you look into it, some readers might want to take the position.) as a moderator? If one mod could be too 'subjective' have a council, like three or five people.
I don't think you have to show your 'sick' or 'cruise' record. You have announce. I am sick. As you said, you don't get payment or contract. On the other hand, if you announce 5 month bed rest, then the mod should check in 5 months later. Is they are still sick? If one said 1 months sick or 2 weeks travel, but after 3 months no update. One could assume, they were gone. An author could inform that they were back. (This is a pledge of completion not a quick completion.)
I think an author had the right to hiatus. Hiatus =/= Dropped. However a good hiatus had a timeline. When the hiatus will end. If it was moving longer than hiatus then it could be said that it was dropped. A certain bumper period should be given.
Hiatus novel could be put into Yellow Card for example. No longer being promoted in the main thread.
That is for example. In return I said, Webnovel should give another slots for promotion in front page (Trending Original Stories, Daily Updates, and Original with Completion Pledges) for thing worth the ban. That front space is luxury. You have said that. The ban is an EXAMPLE for something Webnovel offered to promote this pledge.
If it was only a sticky, a bad reputation is enough punishment. (Red Card Section)
Author trades penalty for promotion.
So, alright, I admit I'm writing way too much. Just see this as me being interested in the topic. I generally feel like a pledge is a good thing but it needs much more consideration than the one that's being done in the other post. That's why I'm nitpicking at everything here. I don't really have a solution for now but I think we could find a good one if we take a close look at the (possible) issues and then try to find a way to fix them.
Considering one of the mods actually did sticky the pledge thread I feel like it's not totally hopeless anymore to get them to be a part of this.
So, back to what I wanted to add. I just wrote the following and think I should say a bit more about that:
yansusustories An author might just have struggled with one project and that so severely that he couldn't even write an ending. Or he just wanted to have it pending for a while and was sure he'd find a good way to continue later on. Considering he's the author, I feel like he should have the right to do so.
So, this probably looks like it wouldn't happen. But I can say from my own experience that it does. I'll go back into story mode now because I feel that examples just make explaining these things and showing possible issues so much easier. Sorry for that
Back in my home country, I had that one project I liked very much but got more or less negative (or at least not really positive) feedback for the second volume. I did have some issues in my work life, too, so I took my sweet time editing the thing (I'm talking about a traditional novel series here not a webnovel but it would have happened all the same if it was a webnovel, that's why I'm bringing this up).
Yes, it was just editing. I had actually already written the whole series then but I wasn't alright with publishing it just like that because it was honestly not good enough. Most of my struggles came from the reader feedback because I wanted to incorporate that, too, to make the novel more enjoyable for everyone else (an issue I've also experienced with one of my webnovels here, so those things can really happen). I couldn't do that. Because what I wanted for the series and what they wanted for the series were just two completely different things. That happens.
After a year went by (not necessarily too long for a traditional novel) I still hadn't managed to complete the edit because I was still struggling with the same issue. So, I decided to make it not a novel I'd publish but a free version on my blog instead. I did post the beginning in relatively short succession because I had managed to finish that in a satisfying way and honestly just wanted to get that thing out of the way. After that, I took some months (!) break again.
I still don't consider this project as dropped because I will update. It just takes a lot of time because I've got lots of other things to do and it just isn't a project that writes/edits itself fast.
This would be a project I'd get the yellow card for in the scenario of the pledge we've painted until now. But I feel like, as the author, it's my right to take a break and seriously consider all aspects before posting because if that volume doesn't turn out as I want the next one won't either. And that might be an even bigger problem because I'd lose motivation completely.
Now, I could have just ended the novel (as MasterRabbink proposed as a means of not dropping a novel, I believe?) just where it was, even if the ending would be crap. But, well, I had already invested several years of work into that thing. Why should I make a shitty ending if I'm totally capable of doing a good one? I just need time for that!
And I feel like I don't have to do that (writing a crappy ending just to have an ending) either. I'm the author. And the author should have the final say over what does and what doesn't happen in his stories.
Now to the conclusion:
This is probably an extreme example and, yes, I'm talking about a traditional novel here not a webnovel so you probably can't transfer all of that. It might have been different if it was a webnovel. But I do think that issues like authors needing a bit of time or a bit more time to figure something out can very well happen even here. (And honestly, they should happen because only that way will we get good novels in the end. If we always rush the authors then naturally we'll mostly get filler-filled novels that only follow the cliched storylines we can already recite in our sleep.)
So, it should be considered very well after which time a novel should be counted as 'dropped' and what kind of punishment is necessary because of that. Because not even considering outside reasons there could be reasons the author has that make it necessary for him to take a little more time.
A pledge of not dropping a novel has as its ultimate goal to make better originals and a better environment for the originals if I understood that correctly. If that's the case, then it can't be the purpose of the pledge to restrict the authors so much that they might even need to write a crappy ending just so they won't get banned. That's not a better original you get, that's just a worse book than you could have had and a frustrated author.
MasterRabbink Mn, this is why we're talking about this. I feel like your suggestions are good and just need some more ... uh ... elaboration? Like I didn't completely get what you meant with the yellow and red cards before and just assumed. Now it's starting to make more sense.
I don't know what the situation on facebook is because I'm not using that :D But it would be nice if they indeed had some people to have an eye on that. As a reader I'm honestly a bit miffed looking at all those non-continued novels myself.
It might be a good idea (I know we've proposed that a hundred times in the forum already) if there would be some possibility for the readers to sort the novels, like taking out the dropped ones (or red card ones in this case?)
The pledge might also be a good idea for that. As of now, nobody looks at that so we as the readers have to look ourselves. If the pledge-things was officially implemented and could be used for things like that, I think it would benefit the readers greatly. And in return, us authors :D, because the readers would finally dare to open an original without fearing it will be put down the next week.
MasterRabbink I know, I know. I'm just trying to envision how it would play out and discussing that. :D
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yansusustories So, it should be considered very well after which time a novel should be counted as 'dropped' and what kind of punishment is necessary because of that. Because not even considering outside reasons there could be reasons the author has that make it necessary for him to take a little more time.
This is open a discussion. I think Webnovel could decide on this. For example: You could take 6 months...editing hiatus. Your novel will be put into Yellow Card (no longer promoted as a novel with pledge). However, a mod or the author should reporting whether he needed more time. If the author disappear, then it gone into Red Card. Red Card's author could no longer capable to add another novel into the pledge. That is the easiest punishment.
yansusustories A pledge of not dropping a novel has as its ultimate goal to make better originals and a better environment for the originals if I understood that correctly. If that's the case, then it can't be the purpose of the pledge to restrict the authors so much that they might even need to write a crappy ending just so they won't get banned. That's not a better original you get, that's just a worse book than you could have had and a frustrated author.
This is what most important. Better Originals. Crappy Ending would happen when one author no longer interested in continuing a story.
The punishement SHOULD be based on the reward. Since it was Just a post on a forum, a ban from adding new novel into the pledge is enough. If you couldn't do your past pledge, you couldn't add a new one.
IT IS A SUGGESTION NOT THE RULE.
At this time, no penalty other than bad reputation. That's it. A pinned thread in place of a risk of your pen name's reputation.
I wish for Webnovel to take a bigger role on the pledge. On the other side, authors also needed to put some 'responsibility/risk' for webnovel in return. Both parties need to give and take.