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  • Regarding Writing Prompts and the final rule

You know, now that you mentioned KDP, you made me curious enough to check their stated conditions to put books online to sell and I have surprisingly found out that most of the things some people consider the two greatest drawbacks from webnovel contracts are almost exactly the same.

like this two paragraphs in KDP license:

You will retain all intellectual property rights you may have in submitted materials. Subject to those rights, Amazon.com will be the exclusive owner of any permitted modifications that it may create.

You agree to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Amazon.com and its affiliated companies from all claims, judgments, damages, and expenses (including reasonable attorneys' fees) that may arise out of any alleged breach of this warranty.

As you see in paragraph one even if you are retaining the original rights, you are actually giving Amazon permission to create derivative works from your novels and in paragraph two you are hold liable to all possible claims that may damage their reputation.

source : [link]https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_left_v4_sib?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201995010

So the only benefit I can see from using KDP is to have a bigger share of the revenue. But then again at least Webnovel do a very good work of promoting the novels of a contracted authors, so probably they gain more money, at least at the beggining.

    GabrielDetchans like this two paragraphs in KDP license:

    You will retain all intellectual property rights you may have in submitted materials. Subject to those rights, Amazon.com will be the exclusive owner of any permitted modifications that it may create.

    You agree to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Amazon.com and its affiliated companies from all claims, judgments, damages, and expenses (including reasonable attorneys' fees) that may arise out of any alleged breach of this warranty.

    As you see in paragraph one even if you are retaining the original rights, you are actually giving Amazon permission to create derivative works from your novels and in paragraph two you are hold liable to all possible claims that may damage their reputation.

    You didn't read the whole thing, did you?

    First paragraph (plus several before it): Amazon is only allowed to used modified materials when promoting your work. When you want to, you can stop giving them the license. They still own the materials, but cannot use those.

    Second paragraph (plus several before it) : You completely misunderstood it. Here's the actual meaning in plain English:

    You must make sure you actually wrote the stuff you submitted. If someone sues your work for copyright infringement, Amazon is innocent.

        GabrielDetchansSo I've never seen a webnovel contract so I'm a bit skew-if on what is the major complaint. My naive impression was WN would take your rights and be able to fiddle around under the hood to make it work for them. That seems not the case at all.

        If it's similar to KDP that's fine, since that clause typically relates to the data you put in the description and meta fields for promotion. It's even better if the author has the same control over content like KDP.

        So in essence, the only benefit I see signing a Webnoval contract is the promotional aspect, which is a huge one since this is the most costly area for a self published author. Hence why a lot of us remain undiscovered kings and queens.

        As you say, there's no use talking or worrying about something that's only a pipe-dream at this stage. :smile:

            Veronica8
            m.webnovel.com/book/11748906106504905

            Here you go. Just ignore the poster's own interpretations sprinkled throughout.
            It's... very different from KDP.

              ImBloo Why did you think i did not read the whole thing . I even post the link so people can check it.

              I agree with the interpretation of the second paragraph, I did not say anything in the contrary at all. I think you misunderstood me there.

              However, I don't agree with your intepretation of paragraph one. You are just assuming that the second paragraph is talking about your submitted material when in fact is talking about derivative rights from your submitted material which is not the same. That's why there is two different paragraphs talking about it. What you are talking is said here:

              By submitting materials to us, you grant to Amazon.com and its affiliated companies a worldwide, royalty-free license (which we may exercise only in connection with our promotion and distribution of your products) to do the following:

              Make reasonable modifications to the submitted materials. For example, Amazon.com may excerpt textual materials and may change the size or otherwise enhance (tilting, shading, etc.) graphical materials.
              Use, copy, and distribute materials and modifications for our internal business purposes.
              Use, copy, distribute, and display materials and modifications on the Internet and on other means of electronic or digital commerce.
              Use all trademarks and trade names associated with the materials.

              BUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS THIS OTHER PARAGRAPH
              This license will continue in perpetuity, unless either party terminates it by giving the other party thirty days' prior written notice. You will retain all intellectual property rights you may have in submitted materials. Subject to those rights, Amazon.com will be the exclusive owner of any permitted modifications that it may create.

              As you can see, it does not mention promotion or advertising here in this apragraph. And it specifically says that they are the exclusive owner (not you) of permitted modifications.

              So, as long they do a derivative work of your submmited materials before the 30 days notice end, they will retain all rights about that derivative work (not your original submmited material). That's what I was talking about.

                  GabrielDetchans Amazon.com will be the exclusive owner of any permitted modifications that it may create.

                  Don't you wonder "What permitted modifications?" It was mentioned in the previous paragraph, that's why I asked if you read the whole thing.

                  GabrielDetchans Make reasonable modifications to the submitted materials.

                  That's the modifications. And they are created with authors permission. Not derivative works or whatever it is you're thinking. At least that's my interpretation from the context. I don't know where in the web page you found that phrase "derivative works" and conclude that it's exactly the same as WN.

                        GabrielDetchans I hope you're aware that "For example, Amazon.com may excerpt textual materials " constitutes a copyright bomb.

                        They rip a piece of your novel for promotional purposes, and after that the piece is their IP... No bloody way in hell I'd sign that.

                            @ImBloo I guess we have different interpretations of it, my friend. Thanks for stating your opinion. Have a nice day!

                              GabrielDetchans I'm quoting what you posted. What could possibly be a matter of interpretation given these two lines of text that you, not I, posted here:

                              1) Make reasonable modifications to the submitted materials. For example, Amazon.com may excerpt textual materials

                              2) Amazon.com will be the exclusive owner of any permitted modifications that it may create.

                                  StenDuring I agree with you. In fact, the lines

                                  Use, copy, distribute, and display materials and modifications on the Internet and on other means of electronic or digital commerce.
                                  Use all trademarks and trade names associated with the materials.

                                  Its all they need for gaining any trial about rights.

                                  But thats just my opinion.

                                  Actually, I will probably be willing to sign away most rights about my own work if either Webnovel or Amazon offer me a contract. I love my novel and my characters but I can still make new ones easily. For a beginner like me, it would be probably much more money that what I can get from an publisher in my country.

                                  I have a friend that is a professional writer and he gets only gets a couple of thousands dollars in advance from his paper publisher and afterwars 4% of the total sale value of every book. For a newbie like me the conditions would be much worse.

                                  So the 200 dollars a month that webnovel guarantees any novel contracted writer in the first four months , would make about 40% of my friend total revenue. Not bad at all. And that is just the first four months...

                                  Of course, I can understand than a famous and prestigious Author with consistance quality skills would see that as a bad deal. But then again, I believe that most famous and prestigious Author would not need a web platform for publishing in the first place.

                                      GabrielDetchans Fair enough :D There are writers who make a good living out of writing media-tie-ins, or sanctioned fan-fiction if you want to be mean. Most of us newbs would realistically be better off signing away the explicit copyright for a decent one-time lump of money.

                                      To be honest I've seen my fair share of contractual text that's was an immediate deal-breaker only to find out that the wording was unintentional. Ie it was a matter of a five minute long conversation to get the absurdity rectified.

                                      However, for those writers who want to retain their rights no matter what (hell it might be a promise to their long dead dog for all I know) then it makes sense to read the wording closely.

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