NineNeatherBird Nice to meet you, Bird! ( I apologise in advance of this offends you, but I feel like Dr.Dolittle...)
I've probably got the wrong idea, but I feel programmers are some kind of godly existence or something... I've probably confused hackers and programmers and read too many OP hacker protagonist themed novels...
Anyway, I was just wondering If you could give me some insight as to what programmers actually do...? You can just ignore this request if you don't want to explain, ok? I'm just curious!
Introduce Yourself!
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Sakura_Natsume Programmers create websites, apps, applications, . . .
We programmers also have to secure our websites which we create. That means we also should have the basic mindset of a hacker. Because we can't just create websites and that's it. We also have to check if it is secure so hackers can't steal data.
For example this will happen to bad programmers:
They check in their code if the typed password equals the correct password.
like this: SELECT . . FROM . . WHERE realPassword = typedPassword.
Compiled it will look like this: . . . WHERE 'monkey' = 'monkey';
For noob programmers this looks okey and works, but not for good programmers.
Good programmers can see that hackers will attack that and do something called SQL-Injection.
They don't enter a password like a sane person would but they enter code into the password-field.
In the code it still looks like this:
like this: SELECT . . FROM . . WHERE realPassword = typedPassword.
and now image if he typed: ' or 1=1
instead of a password into the field.
Compiled it will look like this: . . . WHERE 'monkey' = '' or 1 = 1;
It could be read as: if the typedPassword equals the realPassword or if 1=1, then he is the admin.
And surely 1 equals 1 so the program says its correct and bam access as admin.
I think the difference between hacker and programmer is that hackers specialise more on destroying and programmers more on creating and keeping things safe.
But surely hackers can also create things like programmers. And good programmers can also hack dumb websites of noobs.
queenofkahel You probably are. I was born on New Year's Day.
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NineNeatherBird I feel like that is a way simplified version of programmers. Not every programmer is all about security. Some programmer are just web designers, they do not ever touch the back end that handles the validation of passwords or even the security of the database which holds the passwords.
Point being, not all programmers are network security programmers, and definitely not Information Secuirty experts or programmers. So no the difference between a programmer and a hacker is not the "keeping things safe" or "destroying". Hackers are programmers, the definition of hacking is as:
hack1
hak/
verb
gerund or present participle: hacking
1.
cut with rough or heavy blows.
"hack off the dead branches"
synonyms: cut, chop, hew, lop, saw; slash
"Stuart hacked the padlock off"
2.
use a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system.
"they hacked into the bank's computer"
3.
informal
manage; cope.
"lots of people leave because they can't hack it"
synonyms: cope, manage, get on/by, carry on, come through, muddle along/through; MoreNow you may say Hackers can be responsible and more focused on destroying, but in a literal sense they are programmers who are using a computer to gain unauthorized access to a data in a system. If a programmer has authorized access to a system it's just a regular guy programming. So you see if you had a dude who only deals with the web design, a normal programmer not in info sec not part of network security no access to the database....if he starts to use his programming knowledge to gain access to the database....then he becomes a hacker. Simple as that. Programmers do not even have an obligation to make sure their code is secure, it would be nice, but on the other end that is usually some other programmers job, with his slew of team members.
But what do I know? I'm probably one of those bad programmers you mentioned who doesn't care as long as it works, cause at the end of the day the security portion is not my job lol.
soymilku Also I am now lurking, and I do not eat food that smells bad, if you say it smells good I might try it but generally I don't usually like it. The closest I ever got was leche flan, that some kid brought for her birthday at school, it was disgrossting! Never again.
Is there a dispute regarding programmers and hackers?
No offense on both sides but I want to learn both field LOL
takeshi_zaizen Any updates on the manga/novel you told me about? I won't be able to sleep otherwise lol
Hmmmm.......
Paralegal
23
Female
Tired..... LOL
fly away
Im bigduckcop, im a big duck cop
Flaffy Yes, when working in a big company then programmers are categorized as WebDesigner, AppDesigner, DatabaseSpecialist, a server guy, a security guy, bla bla bla.
I don't know the situation elsewhere, but during school - even university - we weren't forced to focus on one thing. We learned everything, so that we have chances for every programmer position.
Flaffy Not every programmer is all about security
I'm not saying that every programmer is good as security, but that they have basic knowledge of it - or at least should have. (except designers - like you stated)
Flaffy So no the difference between a programmer and a hacker is not the "keeping things safe" or "destroying"
I said: programmers "create" and "keep save". And that is not wrong. If I would have a team of programmers then what would they do? They create UI, DB, Logic, Content, bla bla... and keep the website safe. Am I wrong?
The only difference is that I generalised the term to "programmers" and didn't break it down into the specific job positions. The reason was that he asked what "programmers" do and not what Designer, Db-Spec, blabla . . . do.
Flaffy they are programmers who are using a computer to gain unauthorized access to a data in a system
by the way, not every hacker has to be a programmer. There are a lot of hacking tools, scripts and manuals in the web which even kids can use to hack and make DDoS.
this post is too long....
takeshi_zaizen no there is no dispute.
Some companies even like being hacked. For example Android. They want people to hack Android OS and if someone is successfull then they pay them: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.co.at/2016/09/announcing-project-zero-prize.html
companies like Mozilla, Facebook, Google pay money if you hack their programms and share with them how you did it.
And then their is the strange company Apple. I think I read a time ago that someone found a security hole in their products and wanted to share it with them so they can fix it. Did they award money? No, they sued him. (I read that a long time ago. I'm not sure anymore if it is true)
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NineNeatherBird The only difference is that I generalised the term to "programmers" and didn't break it down into the specific job positions. The reason was that he asked what "programmers" do and not what Designer, Db-Spec, blabla . . . do.
That's not the way it works in America, at least not in my college, If you are going to a generalized programmer view, then sure you may end up with general stuff, but general stuff aint gonna get you a job, in fact it might work out badly for you. I am not saying programmers don't know those things, I am just saying when you say programmer generalizing it, it's actually more confusing because then people will get the idea that they can pick up any programmer and they will be able to do it all which is just not true.
NineNeatherBird by the way, not every hacker has to be a programmer. There are a lot of hacking tools, scripts and manuals in the web which even kids can use to hack and make DDoS.
Yes but normally those things require you to have a certain basic programmer knowledge. Just knowing how to put things in cmd in windows is considered partial programming when you think of it. Doesn't make them a very skilled programmer but programmer nonetheless.
Even now, I know this programmer who only knows SQL, deep dive in SQL but that is legit all he knows, He doesn't know HTML/CSS, he is fascinated all the time by any jqueries (strangely since you would think he's interesting queries with sql but hey). So like when you say stuff about security and stuff I am getting a different picture than the dude I know who specializes in transposing tables to make views for people with PL/SQL.... and he a programmer so when you generalize something be sure to at least try to include other elements besides information security, because programming is way more than just that.
Flaffy when you generalize something be sure to at least try to include other elements besides information security, because programming is way more than just that
Okey. But do you know how many paths there are for programmers?
Too many to create a list here. Here is a list from 2 years ago:
since then are are even more job positions for programmers. Like those creating autonomos driving, VR-developer, bla bla bla
Flaffy you may end up with general stuff, but general stuff aint gonna get you a job, in fact it might work out badly for you.
Yeah that's true. With general knowledge one isn't highly sought after by companies.
But why are you pointing at me? I don't have only average knowledge at many topics. I'm good at what I do.
And I'm not only good at one thing and ignorant of everything else.
Flaffy at least not in my college
so you specialice at one specific category in your college. can I ask which category?
Codex_ do you currently like the second season of Overlord?
I kinda feel that there is too few screen-time for the MCs and too much for the lizards.
NineNeatherBird I wasn't saying you weren't good at what you do. You are great I am sure you are the best programmer that ever lived or will be at some point in your life (lol). I just want you to explain the trade in a less narrow zone.
My focus in College is on Information Systems, the focus of my classes needs to be either in Business Analysis side of the Infrastructure Management aspect of the job, some people can choose to do in between but they have to have classes that cover every guideline for each of those aspects, which you would probably get with 4 years of college instead of two thus becoming a Information Systems Analyst who can handle that which comes at you while in the workplace. I am also going for a BPS, Bachelor of Professional Studies, so much of my classes surround the practical use of protocols and management. I have only just started so much of my classes have not deep dived (I'm trying to get all the math classes out of the way so far I got 1 more).
My friend is taking Computer Science major and she had to choose if she wanted to go into the graphic design portion, or the other stuffs like IT and support stuff. I wasn't fully paying attention when she explained because most computer stuffs that don't have to do with me bore me. She'll come to me like "Oculus made so and so blah de blah de blah" and I'm just like "yeah? ok sounds cool".
student
DZ
male
17
wasting my time reading novels because my life boring ...JK
good to know you :)
soymilku I learned about QI from haters. Those days QI was the talked of the town, and only a person isolating from civilization would not have heard of QI.
Veldora oh not yet Im busy working these few days maybe on the weekends after my work I'll start searching for it. Argh I even forgot to get the 70+exp yesterday.
NineNeatherBird yeah I've read it a long time ago. They pay for hackers to bypass their sites.
If I know how to do that I will offer my service for them so that I'll be working with them LOL
Codex_ oh they have the second season now? They rarely updating on manga.
Did you know the anime is it wrong to pick up girls in dungeons?(danmanchi) they finished it in the anime but the manga is still catching up.
