Hey guys i have read pretty many harem stories and usually when i read comments on the stories/novels it usually is a comment about how the girls/females in the stories are "empty" characters with really bland personalities. Or how easy the main character gets his harem members.

So just wondering what people think about this? How long should the main character chase a girl before he actually gets her, what personalities or traits should they have to not be bland ? Should all the girls have their own specific personalities. How long should you build up a female character ? And how many girls in a harem would you deem perfect ?

Ofc i know my question is dependent on the stories, like is it romance heavy etc. But well i would just like your guys your guys' opinion. Thanks for people that read and answer :p

The problem isn't with temporality or "how long it takes to 'conquer' the heroine" (in a way, that mindset is itself already flawed to begin with). The problem is how one-dimensional the female characters are. They don't feel like real humans or characters, they feel like robots inserted into the story to lust over the protagonist's d* and praise him to kingdom come.

The solution, thus, is to flesh them out more thoroughly instead of simply having them exist solely to fall for the protagonist and become part of his harem. What are their goals? Their aspirations? Often, all these are left on the wayside as the heroines unrealistically give up everything to become the protagonist's wife or concubines. Seriously? Who the hell would do that in real life? I mean, some people do, but when every single girl does it, it becomes suspect. Make them feel real. Have them chase after their own dreams and aspirations. Not every heroine has to be a super-talented genius martial artist who's the next leader of their sect or a princess from the royal family or whatever. What do they strive for? Maybe this girl wants to become a blacksmith. Have her continue becoming a blacksmith instead of her conveniently forgetting how to craft weapons when she marries the protagonist. What about that heroine who wants to set up a fashion store? Surely she'll run into troubles of her own and face competitors, and she has to overcome her own ordeals instead of having the male protagonist conveniently swoop in, beat up all the other store owners in the city and do everything for her.

Another problem is that all the heroines usually tend to be carbon copies or clones of each other. Other than background (some of which are idential - sect leader here, princess there, slave in the center, damsels in distress everywhere), they all basically say the same thing and behave the same manner. If they're not praising the protagonist for being a genius or the only man who can win their hearts, or their hero who saved them from death or whatever, they are basically just throwing themselves at him. Every single one of them. Let's face it. In reality, if a girl sees that this guy is already surrounded by girls, will she really just join in and throw herself at him? Girls, if you're here, please answer me. Will any of you ever voluntarily enter a harem and share a guy with each other? Regardless of whether there really exists such people, it makes for a bland and awful story if that's what all the girls do. Not to mention repetitive. Imagine reading the umpteenth time of girl number 7 trying to seduce the protagonist in a similar fashion as girl number 2 and 5 (I dunno, night visit or dropping in on him in a bath). You get sick of it after a while.

Then there's rape. Seriously, in what universe will a girl conveniently fall for a protagonist after he rapes her? It's a criminal insult to real victims of rape, many of whom suffer emotional and psychological damage after the ordeal. But no, these girls just recover as if nothing happened, or it was nothing more than a one night stand, or they comically explode into a murderous tantrum and try to kill the protagonist (and fail spectacularly), only to fall for him eventally. That is utter BS. It's not realistic at all. Normally they would suffer tremendous trauma after that, not the same paper-cut behavior you often see in xianxia or CEO novels. The authors clearly have not gone through the experience (and I sincerely hope they will never have to), but it's a travesty how they just belittle the psychological effects of rape. If you want such heavy themes in your story, have your character behave like a rape victim. Don't have them childishly throwing murderous tantrums, don't have them dismissing it like a one-night stand and don't have them falling for the rapist (who only gets away with it because he's the damned protagonist). Show the terrible effects of rape and how awful it is. Do not condone such criminal behavior.

It's not about chasing a girl or length of time. It's about fleshing out the heroines. They need to have their own distinct personalities, not just existing to fall in love and praise the protagonist. They need to have their own goals, dreams and aspirations. They need to respond realistically to a traumatic ordeal like rape or violence, instead of childish or indifferent behavior after the crisis. If you just got raped, your first thought wouldn't be to kill the rapist. You would be humiliated, disturbed, depressed to the point of sucide. Don't give me that crap about her being a martial artist - if that's the case, she wouldn't get raped in the first place (I'm not saying martial artists can't be raped, but the fact that she got overpowered and victimized means that she will suffer psychological damage instead of jumping after the protagonist murderously after the deed is done). Neither will you simply move on and forget about it as if it's a one-night stand.

This is not limited to xianxia alone. Particularly for Japanese light novels (and to a large extent, Chinese web novels as well), you need a legitimate reason for the girls to fall for the protagonist. Many of them just have the heroines fall for him just for breathing. A lot of the protagonists in Japanese light novels are plain, bland and boring, and the girls have no reason whatsoever to fall for him...yet they do. Using an excuse of "they are childhood friends" or "he helped her once" or "he is nice" is not enough. It's superficial, it's not deep and it's not real. Are you telling me the male protagonist is the only guy in the world who is "nice" or "helped" the heroine once? I call total BS on that. No, you need an actual, legitimate reason for them to fall for him other than because he just walks on two legs or breathes. Actual interaction matters. The beautiful student council president is never going to fall for some nobody she doesn't even talk to. Childhood friends will move on in life, make new friends and meet new guys, they are not going to get hung up on the same guy for years unless he gives them an actual reason to. That cute junior needs a valid reason to pick the male protagonist out of all the many male senpais in school. It's not just a matter of time, it's a matter of how the characters interact and developing their relationship realistically. If you want the student council president to fall for your protagonist, don't make him bland, don't give some stupid backstory of him always watching her from afar and fantastizing but never actually talking to her or interacting with her - create a scenario that allows him to stand out from all the other guys. And no, "being nice" or "helping her out" is not a sufficient scenario, because I'm pretty sure all the other guys can be nice and helped her out too. Give him something to stand out. I know protagonists tend to be self-inserts or blank canvases for readers to put themselves in his position, but that does not make for a realistic or good romance story. You need to make him stand out and give the heroine a legitimate reason to fall for him, not just hand-wave a sorry excuse of a cliche into explaining her love.

Avoid the reverse as well. Don't make your protagonist a bloody chad who's god's gift to all women and can do everything with a wave of his hand. Mary Sues are poorly written characters, and they are obnoxious to read. Most people don't want to read about a god-like protagonist who gets everything handed to him on a silver platter (this incudes the heroines). Make him work for the love and EARN it. Romance doesn't come freely. It has to be earned. Through blood, sweat and tears, and surviving ordeals together. Not by magically hand-waving the characters together or making the protagonist a Mary Sue chad.

Sorry for the long wall of text, and I know nobody will read it, so whatever.

    Tomoyuki
    Holy shit, you said everything! That's really cool, you talked about the biggest problems about harém novels/manga. A Lot of readers drop or judge really badly other novels because of the harém genre. Also, I did see novels with great potencials only to get Ruined because of the misuse of the harém trope. Honestly, I think that, If used Right, Harém can make your story fairly interesting. You could introduce girls with unique personalities, develop their characters and create scenarios that catch the reader's attention. Also, one thing that I would look forward in harem novels is, introducing a Girl that isn't that Pretty, talented or has a unique background, It would make a great Arc seeing this Common Girl becoming a badass and important character in the story, Just reeling on her effort or Lucky encounters. There was this novel called MGA, and the problems in the harém are Just like the ones you stated.

    Yeah, Martial God Asura was utterly terrible in how it treated its female characters, and the protagonist was just a bona fide overpowered chad Mary Sue protagonist who was popular with edgelords because of his "ruthlessness" and psychopathic behavior.

      Tomoyuki
      Exactly! The thing that pissed me off the most about MGA's harém was How the Females were simply too "untalented" to be able to follow the MC in his adventures. They were Just trophies that the MC conquered, their only use was to be f***** and ignored. And I quite liked their personalities, especially Su rou and Eggy, so It made me really disappointed in this novel.

        The worst thing is how they got raped by Chu Feng and then they just simply treat it as nothing and fall for him. Didn't he basically rape the daughter of an enemy clan and then marry her, and she for some reason doesn't even hate him or contemplate revenge? Or was it he raped her and then justified it as "punishment" for her crimes? What a hypocrite.

          Tomoyuki

          The other thing that I Hate about harém novels are the fact that the girls easily accept each other. Honestly, I think that a Lot of Human girls wouldn't like, or at least, feel jealous about sharing their Man with 5 or more girls.

          Tomoyuki

          There is also this problem. The girls get raped and suddenly after just some days they instantly fall in love with the MC for no apparent reason, Just like you commented.

            Also, I don't see any problem with a Girl becoming INTERESTED ( not in love, but interested ) in the MC. Because of his appearence, background, personality? It doesn't matter, personaly, I think that love begins with a interest, later after some trials and more development, the characters would truly fall in love with eachother.

              Tomoyuki
              I totallyagree with you, I mean I know I haven't read a lot of harem novels because I can be extremely picky, if a look at the outline or pick a random chapter and read carp then I won't touch that book again. It's only a few novels I've read that there is actually a reasonable reason for this or that person to fall in love with MC dearest but unfortunately after this few wins they usually relapse into the millions of nameless faces that are stashed in an interspatial palace accessible to only th mc.......honestly speaking it either gets too old or is morally and immorally disgusting, example of an eight year old with the soul of an ancient lust God raping his mother because the lust God had taken over the tiny kid's body....
              And the concerned mother didn't even try to check him spiritually even tho she was a cultivator with a very high rank smh

                Tomoyuki Oh yeah, I remember dropping MGA over that scene. I think it's around chapter 120? Basically, he has a marriage arranged with some girl who doesn't want to marry him, and he's not that interested either. The girl tries to trick MC into S.E.X. with her friend, who does like the MC. He finds out and as punishment, he beats the girl who likes him half to death and rapes the girl who doesn't.

                After that point, I decided to read on a bit, because I thought that maybe, finally, Chu Feng would get the punishment he deserves for everything he's done. But then the next chapter he talks to the raped girl's master, who's also a woman, and she basically tells him: "That stuck-up girl had it coming. Well done."

                Really couldn't stomach any more after that.

                  SociableHermit Yeah, that was utterly disgusting. The author doesn't treat women like human beings. He just sees them as...objects or trophies.

                    Blessing_Emmanuel_3403 Yeah, I thought that was normal behavior. But for some reason heroines in xianxia or Japanese stories don't seem to do that. Either they fight over one guy or agree to share him, which makes no sense to me.

                      Tomoyuki Wow what an incredible answer. I really agree with you and you really opened my eyes to what it is to write a story. I really really appreciate your answer. I didn't actually expect anyone to answer this question tbh.

                      I guess I really need to plan my characters out really well before I write my story, seems like I'm a bit influenced by all the harem novels I have read X) I will try to incorporate all of your tips into my story and hopefully make a really good harem story that actually has great depth in both plot and story.

                        Tomoyuki
                        So, um, after reading that quite long answer, I just want to ask, any good Harem story that could fit the criteria for that great answer?

                          GegeSadewa I honestly have no idea. Haven't read a good one. Hmm, I do like Kawaikereba Hentai demo Suki ni natte kuremasuka? That one was hilarious. I also like Gotoubun no Hanayome, because each of the five sisters have their own distinct personalities and don't necessarily depend on the protagonist (Futaro) like a crutch.

                            Tomoyuki
                            I could find "Kawaikereba Hentai demo Suki ni natte kuremasuka?" ( https://www.novelupdates.com/series/kawaikereba-hentai-demo-suki-ni-natte-kuremasu-ka/ )
                            But I could not find "Gotoubun no Hanayome".
                            I'm guessing that both are Japanese Novel.
                            Have you read "The Black Card" ? ( https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-black-card/ )
                            I've just read your definition of good harem, and I compare it with most harem I already read, and they are not fit with you criteria. But then I read "The Black Card" and wondering is it good enough or not.
                            So maybe if you could also give opinion on the one inside that story? I just want to know other opinion.
                            ( http://gravitytales.com/novel/the-black-card/tbc-chapter-1 )
                            Thank you.

                              Web Novel Novel Ask