Webnovel.Forum

I have a feeling that you guys completely misunderstand what privilege does. Renewing privilege doesn't give you new chapters. It just makes sure you always remain x number of chapters ahead of everyone else. That's all.

To give a clearer and more concrete scenario, let's say the story you want to buy privilege for has 100 free chapters, and Chapter 101-200 are premium. If you're paying for privilege, you're basically paying to read Chapters 201-225 ahead of everyone else. So you just read Chapter 225 yesterday, November 30th, and now privilege expires. So you decide to renew your privilege for December.

That doesn't mean you suddenly get Chapters 226-250. That's not how Privilege works. Nor does it mean you suddenly get Chapter 226 after buying Privilege. What happens is that if you have Privilege, and the author decides to release Chapter 226 tomorrow, you get to read Chapter 226, ahead of everyone, while normal non-privilege readers only get to read up to Chapter 201. That's what Privilege does. It ensures you stay 25 chapters ahead of everyone else. Not give you new chapters. If you really aren't happy with getting nothing new immediately after paying for Privilege, then wait for Chapter 226 or a new Privilege chapter to be uploaded before you purchase Privilege. Don't complain about not being able to read Chapter 226 or the newest Privilege Chapter if you decide to boycott Privilege. You don't get to have your cake and eat it.

It's best if people actually understand what Privilege is before they start complaining when they seem to have everything completely wrong. Furthermore, this is actually a pay model taken straight from Patreon, which adheres to a monthly subscription (so people who donate $10 a month get to read 25 chapters ahead of people who donate $1 a month), but no one ever complains about the artists or creators on Patreon.

Fourclovers Eh? From the Patreon creators I follow, they do the same thing, where donors who donate more monthly (for example, people who donate $10 a month) get to read 5 chapters ahead of those who only donate $1 a month. Am I mistaken? They don't get to read an extra 5 chapters immediately, especially since Patreon automatically deducts on a monthly basis, and we don't just pay $5 straight up.

Fourclovers I think that's actually a misunderstanding, because while you do pay twice, the amount you pay comes up to the same anyway. For example, you pay 250 Spirit Stones for an entire month's worth of privilege chapters, plus the 12 stones to unlock the chapter itself. So that totals out to about $12.50 a month, maybe? If you don't want privilege and just pay normal spirit stones for the usual daily updates, that's about $7.50 a month. You basically pay twice the amount of normal people for privilege (or actually you pay $5 more, or 66% more in this case).

For Patreon, if you pay a monthly fee of $5 a month, you probably get say, 1 chapter a week, or maybe 2-3 if you're lucky. But if you're a higher-tier donor who pays $10 a month, you can to read say, 10 chapters ahead. So essentially you're paying twice the amount for earlier access (and if I'm not mistaken, if you pay $25 a month, you get to read 25 chapters ahead, which is essentially 5 times the amount). So okay, you pay twice for Privilege in Webnovel, and you pay once in Patreon, but the amount you pay is essentially the same for the same number of privilege chapters (or whatever they call them in Patreon). You just pay twice the amount one time as opposed to paying half the amount twice in Webnovel. However, Patreon offers more flexible...payment, so donors who donate $1 a month get the same amount of chapters as donors who donate $5 a month, as does people who choose to donate $2.50 or $3. And those people who donate $11 or $15 get the same early access as those who donate the minimum $10 for the level 2 tier. Why they choose to donate more, maybe they just want to support the creator. But the point is that you still have to pay a substantially higher subscription fee to unlock the second tier for early access to a set number of chapters. Just because you pay it once doesn't mean Patreon is cheaper or more "honest" and less "unscrupulous" than Webnovel. You just pay the same amount once, whereas, you pay the same amount in two installments for Webnovel. Yes, it's unwieldy, but...I dunno.

So no one is getting cheated as what the thread starter or many other posters have claimed. They just don't understand what it is they are paying for.

Tomoyuki
Thank you for clearing that up. But now I think the problem is every patreon translator is different. I just read one patreon that offers 1$ tier as only to support the translator with no chapters while another offered $5 for 5 advanced chapters. So for this creator the more money you pay the more chapters you get. I think that’s what confused me cause I just assumed all patreon follow the same set of style. But reading what you wrote I guess some translators dont follow the whole “pay more, read more” style. Btw I never said patreon is more honest. I still don’t like this privilege idea as because of this the books I like get little to no mass releases now. & I also find a lot of original novels end up writing more filler chapters to earn more money from privilege. Of course that’s not all authors some are more serious and write good chapters that are worth it. So I still hope Webnovel would implement another style.

Tomoyuki
For me filler chapters are one of those chapters that does not advance the plot. The type where even if you don’t read it you won’t miss anything. I would name some but I don’t want to start any fights with the author or loyal fans of the book. But the comments section of that particular chapters says the same thing so it’s not just me who believes that. I ended up dropping that novel but of course once again not all authors are like that.

It is a fact though that after privilege was implemented that we got less mass releases. I get translators have a life and everything, same with the authors but it’s unfair to those that can’t afford to pay. I’m not asking a mass release every single month, but would once every three months be too much? Even 5-10 chapters would be nice. That’s why I would still prefer a different system.

Fourclovers Why do you think you are even entitled to a mass release at all? Yeah, it is a bit too much. Let's say I write 1 chapter a day, and try to maintain a daily release because of my job. Sometimes I miss writing because of work (extra shifts, overtime, real life, etc.) so maybe I write 1 chapter every 2-3 days instead. When and where am I going to find the time to write an extra 4-9 chapters for your mass release?

Also, how do you know which chapters do not "advance" the plot? Slice of life moments don't advance the plot, but they are needed because you can't have an adrenaline-rush action-packed chapter every single time. The main characters need a break, need a breather. Some people claim that romance is filler, but how are you supposed to deal with relationships then? Skip them? I've seen people complain about the train arc in Forty Millenniums of Cultivation being "filler" just because they want Li Yao to go straight to university, but that was so integral to his character development and provides massive context for how the universe in which he inhabits works. Yeah, you are not the only one who comment on chapters being filler, but a lot of times I find the comments unfair and unjust because they sound like they are calling anything they don't want to read as "filler" without considering the actual needs of the story, or the pacing or character development that takes place during this so-called "filler" chapter. There are readers who complain about an entire flashback arc being "filler" even though it's part of world building and sets the context for the current events and explains certain things that happened in the present, but no, readers complain that it's "filler" all because they couldn't care less what happened in the past and want to know what the main character is doing right now. That's just BS.

Why is it unfair to those who can't afford to pay? You still get to read the chapters. You are maybe 10 chapters behind, but it's not like you will never read them. The only difference is that you get to read everything 10 days after the privilege readers if the author does a daily release. Don't you realize you're basically being unfair to those who pay extra? What's the difference between them who pay extra and you who don't, if you get the same amount of chapters or the same thing? They might as well don't pay extra then.

So what system would you like? Everyone gets equal number of chapters regardless of how much they pay? Or authors should just give up on earning extra and just do mass releases regardless of how busy they are in real life for no extra cost?

KoraL That's plagiarism and recaps, and they are rightly frowned upon. That's not even filler anymore, that's just...ethically wrong. If you copy and paste a Wikipedia article, that's downright plagiarism. Recaps are recaps, not fillers, and I agree that they are absolutely unnecessary, and if writers are abusing that to pad the word count, then they should be rightly called out. As for the different character's point of view, perhaps the author is just not skilled enough to provide new insights, and was trying his or her best to do something different. Got to give him/her credit for trying instead of complaining that it's filler.

I am not a big fan of the privilege system, but I'm just explaining to clarify how it actually works because some of the complaints clearly indicate that they had no idea what they were paying for and thought they were entitled to things that they weren't, so I just want to sort that out. If there's a better alternative, I'm all for it. The subscription model didn't work because it literally caused a drastic drop in author's income, so I can understand why the writers wanted to scrap it, so that's not viable. I'm not sure what is a practical solution or a better alternative. Maybe we'll figure it out. Eventually.

You saying that we aren’t entitled to mass releases are wrong. We are still readers that rate, support, comment & share your novels to others. That’s how a story gets popular - with support. Without the readers support, writers wouldn’t even have a chance to have their story get paid. In that case back before privilege was implemented they shouldn’t ever have mass releases because we aren’t entitled back then too. Whether we pay or not we are still readers that support our authors. And I don’t think those that can’t pay should be neglected like that. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a mass release once in a while and I’m sorry you felt that way.

Filler chapters are filler chapters. You can disagree that’s fine. I never said you wrote filler chapters, I said some do, some dont. But it’s also a fact filler chapters exist. Maybe not for you story but there is. Even on book translations there are still filler chapters. Some writers could write a filler chapter cause they have writers block but need to meet a quota. Even real life authors have editors that emit paragraphs after paragraphs cause they think it’s not needed for the story. To think no writers would ever write filler chapters are thinking too naively.

Tomoyuki
I would like a system where it’s affordable. And not like privilege where you have to pay twice. They might as well merge the pricing and give us a flat rate. If it costs the same as patreon that’s good if it costs more that’s also fine. Cause the most complaints I see about privilege is the fact that people pay twice. Also when we buy a month of it we should be able to read for month and not count by the calendars. If we buy it on the 28th we should be able to read until the 28th of next month. This is also what is different from patreon. Also like what you said, I don’t know what better system could be made. I just feel privilege is not it. They should at least make adjustments to it.

Fourclovers You must be joking. No, you are not entitled to mass releases. Yeah, a story becomes popular with the readers' support, and perhaps you gain support through mass releases, but that's a privilege, not an entitlement. Don't ever mistake a gift for entitlement.

If you don't want to support a writer just because he doesn't do mass releases, then so be it. And yes, it is too much to ask for a mass release even once in a while. This is not a full-time job. We do not have the time to provide mass releases sometimes. It's already a tremendous effort to keep up a daily release, and as you probably have noticed, most stories tend to go on hiatus, or writers just give up halfway. Never mind mass release, it takes dedication and diligence just to maintain a daily release, or for someone to actually finish his story all the way to the end. And it's not about neglect. It's about you getting what you paid for. You are paying for chapters that are already written. You are not paying for mass releases. You are not paying to enslave us, to chain us to our chairs and force us to pump out 10 chapters in a single day for that mass release. If we can't do it, we have very valid reasons why we can't, and you are not entitled to mass releases just because you say so. If you refuse to support just because my work-life schedule or real life events means that I struggle to provide a daily release for six months, never mind a single mass release, then I will be more than happy to not receive your support. I'm not getting paid for a mass release, nor am I getting paid to listen to you whine about not getting your mass release.

Just because you patronize my shop everyday and "support" me doesn't mean you are entitled to a free lunch or an extra meal. I can only cook so much everyday, if I can't afford to give you an extra meal because I'm busily cooking for other people as well, then that's how it is. Writers have real lives, real work, and their own personal circumstances to deal with. If you can't support them just because you don't get your mass release, then don't. In the first place, you should be supporting a story that is well written, entertaining and enjoyable, not a story that pumps out mass release. Quality over quantity. But your attitude and entitlement only encourage quantity over quality, and doesn't seem to care about the authors at all.

Think about it. What happens to you if you don't receive any mass release? NOTHING. You have plenty of stories to choose from. Even if the author misses a daily update, nothing bad will happen to you. You just move on, read another story, look for a new story. Perhaps you are reading multiple stories, you're not going to miss Story X if it fails to update today. You probably get annoyed because of a cliffhanger, but what exactly is going to happen? Nothing. You spend maybe 10 minutes reading a chapter, and move on. If there's no daily update, you spend those 10 minutes doing something else, maybe reading another story. You're not wasting your time or your life.

What about the author? For him to do a mass release, he has to invest 10-15 hours a day to write 5 chapters. Let's say it takes 2-3 hours to write a single chapter. And you want a mass release of 10 chapters. Where is he going to find 20-30 hours from? It's already difficult for authors to take out 2-3 hours everyday to maintain a daily update - many don't even do so, they maybe write 1 chapter every 2-3 days, or 1 chapter a week. Those able to maintain a daily update are those who selflessly dedicate their time, who literally spend several hours a day just to ensure you have something to read everyday. For them to do a mass release means they have to find 20-30 hours from somewhere...where are they going to find that time? This is unlike the reader, who spends 10 minutes reading, maybe gives a power stone, maybe throws a comment, maybe spends a second or two offering a gift. It's 20-30 hours that they often do not have because of real life. What happens if he is sick? He takes a day or two off, and then readers complain that there are no updates. What happens if he has real-life affairs to take care of? Maybe his parents are sick. Or he has to take care of his nephew. Maybe he has to work overtime for the next couple of weeks. Or he has an examination to study for the entire month. Or perhaps a project he has to work on over the next six months. Or he decides to go on a camping trip. But no, he can't go anywhere, he can't go on vacation, he can't hang out with old friends or whatever because he's obligated to write everyday and update everyday? To dedicate more time than usual just to stockpile for an eventual mass release?

Perhaps you want to put yourself in the author's shoes and consider his circumstances, the amount of effort and time he needs to write even a single chapter everyday, the dedication and sacrifices he has to make for you to have something to read everyday, before you selfishly and thoughtlessly demand for a mass release, and how you are entitled to it. Because no, you are not. And no, you are not sorry that I feel this way. You have absolutely no idea how much sacrifice, pain, effort and time we invest into writing, and seem to think that it's this easy task where we can f*ing pull several chapters out of our ass every 3 months or something. Chapters don't just bloody appear from nowhere, we need to actually invest a tremendous amount of time and effort into creating them. So don't act so entitled and think that you deserve a mass release because of your support, especially when your support of just reading for several minutes, clicking on votes, etc. doesn't commensurate with the hours of sweat, blood and tears we have to put into creating those chapters. This isn't about you not getting to read anything - if you don't get your chapter or mass release, you move on and read other stuff or do other things. Writers, on the other hand, need to actually sit down for hours and type to create a single chapter. It's not as simple as us just hand-waving a chapter into existencce. Yeah, you pay for it, maybe? So what? You are paying to read something that we already spent hours working so hard to write and create. Not for the promise or guarantee that we will do a mass release. You are paying for something that we have already created, not something that we will create in future, or not for a mass release in future one day. Your "support" isn't the same thing as entitlement to mass release, or even a daily release schedule. It's to ensure that we can keep going, we can support ourselves, and that our efforts and labor in writing a story actually mean something instead of us working for free. Don't mistake your support for entitlement. Just as writers need readers' support, readers also need to understand the authors' circumstances and not make ridiculous demands like mass releases, and to stop behaving so entitled. Otherwise nobody will want to write. It's like the service sector - even if you pay for a specific service, you are not entitled to yell, complain and make demands of the service provider.

I am not denying that filler chapters exist. I am merely pointing out that readers tend to call whatever they don't want to read as fillers and lump everything together, which is...unfair.

Fourclovers Again, you are mistaking extra gifts for entitlement.

If you are contracted to work 8 hours a day, and suddenly a customer demands that you work nine hours or 10 hours all because he is supporting your shop, or because he is paying you, I am very sure you will be upset.

Just because we give you something extra doesn't mean you are entitled to it. You are right, without the readers' support, writers are nothing. Conversely, without writers, you have nothing to read. And who, may I ask, can afford to write full time based on Webnovel contracts? They are not even paying minimum wage. Who are these writers and translators who are doing this full-time without needing another job? You are right, go tell all the writers not to accept contracts then. We should all write for free then. That's what most of us have been doing anyway, it changes nothing, we earn almost nothing from the contract anyway, only difference being the readers acting so entitled.

Honestly, if that's the kind of support you are offering, most of us are better off without it. If you are supporting a writer because you enjoy his story and look forward to seeing more, and don't want him to quit or give up, then that's great. If you are supporting an author because you think you are entitled mass releases and your support is conditional, based on what you think the author should do for you in return for your votes or stones, then frankly, he's better off without your support. Most of us write for fun anyway, and couldn't be bothered about the pocket change or rankings or popularity.

Tomoyuki
Actually without you writers. We could just read somewhere else. Webnovel isn’t the only story reading site or app. From what I read around January the author of “The Last wish system” quit his job to write full time. A lot of translators also don’t do this part time. I know “Paperplane” the translator is doing this full time.

You are also not understanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying authors should write for free. I’m just saying if you’re gonna complain about webnovel not paying you enough & we free readers should stop complaining. Then yeah you shouldn’t have signed that contract. They could sign a better contract with incentives. Royal road, dreame, & Wattpad are examples of online stories where authors can get paid. Now I don’t know how much they are paying them or how it works. They could also send their stories to get published or even open up their own website with ads. Miu from wattpad did that so all her readers would read on her site, so she can earn extra cash. These are examples of other options they can choose to advance their writing career instead of staying at a place where they’re not getting benefits they deserve.

Make webnovel private & only open to those that pay. And this site/app would be finished. There’s a reason why even when premium was implemented they still kept an option where readers could still read for free. This isn’t Scribd where they could rely on subscription. So you must be kidding if us free readers aren’t worth the support. And that our kind of support isn’t needed. Once again without our votes, comments & sharing. Their writing career would’ve never kicked off & are still the reason for their rising popularity despite it all. Webnovel or any kind of writing platform would cease to exist. So sorry if throwing us free readers a bone with 5 mass release chapters once in a blue moon is too much. Sorry that they feel like we’re bratty for thinking that way.

Also I literally wrote how I’m still supporting the authors & translators despite the privilege. So I have no idea why you decided to think I stayed cause I believe I should get mass releases? I can literally read it for free on another site. So obviously I stayed to support them. I’ve also given up on mass releases. I don’t expect them anymore. I don’t even check TGIF anymore. I just go on here to read & voice my opinions on things I find not right.