checkm8 U know, every business is like this, so what s the point?
Qidian sent DMCA notice to Patreon for all WW translators
checkm8 and... how many completed works are free?
Thormented Ofcourse anyone can see that the premium is cheaper than the patreon. But the thing we aren't talking about just 1 novel. premium is decreasing the free chaps for all the novels so if you read more than 1 novels it won't be the same which everyone here reads. You can just support 1 novel on patreon and read the rest free with realese rate of 11-21chaps/week. But now you are required to spend ss on all the novels you read not just one. And when you add all those values you have to spend a lot of ss. Here if you are saying that just read free chaps for other novels that also doesn't change the fact that I could have chosen not to support on patreon and read more chaps for free.
The thing is I am not against Premium if they can make premium such that you get 1chap unlocked everday no matter how many chaps you have already unlocked
shrugs the topic's logic implies that Qidian will raise the cost of Patreon. I'm talking strictly about that.
If you want to overpay for Patreon and then complain that Qidian is expensive go ahead, but do NOT try to convince others without understanding the math or providing a logical argument.
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CKtalon It took me a while to process everything. I am curious now. Tell me.
Did WW buy right to translate those 20 novels for free by actually paying money?
If they did they are really big idiots to exclusevely give away their any other rights to make money out it other than ad money.
And I refuse to believe Qidian did not know this. I absolutely refuse to believe that. The most probable reason I can think of is the inhousing patreon system WW just implemented. Comeon, this argument of violation of contract can be right if you follow every rules down to the lines. But seriously, start humanizing.
{{{{Despite how justifiable it is, it sounds like a move to crush WW when it starts to compete seriously.}}}}
If it is as Qidian claims, they can Ask and ORDER WuxiaWorld to NOT apply in-house patreon system in WW site. That sounds justifiable. WW can do it with other publisher novels.
And if RXW claims the patreon page upload doesn't have anything to do with WW, then I am afraid he is digging himself a pit. Individuals do not have a contract with Qidian nor they are authorized to publish these novels. So Qidian can claim DMCA like "You cheated" "You cheated." But seriously give them a lease.
CKtalon A proper authorization would be something like this:
A revocable authorization (without proper conditions) is a proper authorization? Laughable.
PATREON SHOULD SUE WW FOR STEALING THEIR BUSINESS PLAN LOL.
Thormented Oh! did you read my first comment to which you replied?
~38,940 Free novels are listed as Finished. So roughly 5%
~13,440 VIP novels are listed as Finished. So roughly 45%
~63200 Free novels were updated within the last month.
~7000 VIP novels were updated in the last month.
Yes, it's a false equivalency.
Just because you THINK you're entitled to free chapters does not mean it's actually true. Give me one tangible reason that isn't "everyone else does it" as to why Qidian should care about how other translators handle their release rate.
WW novels had patreon well before the contracts were ever signed. This was clear a year ago. Why wasn't this something that QI brought up last year? QI's story seems to change weekly. It's interesting that WW's story has been consistent throughout. Hmm, whom should I believe? A company that constantly changes their position in the dispute. Or the company that has maintained a consistent statement.
Furthermore, why even bother with this DMCA attack when the novels will be going in-house next month?
Just more toxic shit stirred up by QI! It seems they are only focused on being a cancer within the community.
KingBiBiK WW paid an undisclosed 6-digit figure for 20 novels (which isn't a lot considering there are 20 books). They also have the rights to publish ebooks and they have to share profits with QI on ebooks. Other than that, nothing else.
WW can do anything it wants. It will just have to face any legal consequences. Obviously, it doesn't really care about QI either. And if it does anything against the contract, it will just open itself up to more legal troubles.
It is revocable just as how they can revoke the authorization once Premium went up. It was an understanding we had when signing the contract. Nothing really wrong with that.
Thormented I knew this was coming Just because you THINK you're entitled to free chapters does not mean it's actually true. Is there even a need of discussion then? These novels are qidian property they can do whatever they want.
Thormented The only drawback is free chapters, of which you're still given 7/week which is for a premium product that you should be spending money on perfectly fine from my point of view.
The premium chapter cost SHOULD be reduced if they ever plan to get rid of free chapters. Or I am out.
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checkm8 The contract was signed some time in Oct 2016. Most of the Patreons started in early 2017. Generally, QI acts with one eye closed. But with the fall out, QI naturally isn't gonna continue acting with one eye closed.
QI also actually hasn't made many statements. A lot of it is done through inference by us who think that QI didn't do anything wrong.
Also, are you being selective in what I'm saying? I quoted RWX on most things, providing how it is inconsistent. He posted a contract that says nothing about inhouse Patreon/Patreon, or anything of that thing. WW's past and future acts have been in breach of the contract to begin with.
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CKtalon Oh CKtalon, as much as like you, I cannot agree with this one.
You did not get what I mean. You said its an understanding. BUT UNDERSTANDINGS and AGREEMENTS has no value unless it's in the contract. Right?
In your own early words,
CKtalon RWX also claims that Qidian allowed it during investment agreement talks which would have been fine IF it was actually signed.
So unless proper conditions of revoke is agreed upon, the company can revoke it on a wimp.
For ex. I as your boss in the company had an issue with you when you said a comment on how you don't like my striped pants and I kept it in mind. I just make some God knows what reason and revoked it.....
So what I am saying is the term is open-ended and thus can be exploited.
It should be like it can be revoked when
a) if the work becomes premium
b) if the translator is fired
c) blah blah
So if you agreed to an open word like that basically, it turns into be a privilege the other party may give you to enjoy until they feel like it is time to revoke rather than a benefit you enjoy.
WW can be like this too. They may not had thought too deeply into this.
Do you understand what I am saying? The contract may hold properly if both parties are in harmony and there can be mutually agreed clause and conditions that may not be specified. But when these parties turn enemies, then they are not trying to hold these contract or UNDERSTANDINGS under its harmony but tries to exploit its loopholes.
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Thormented Yes, it's a false equivalency.
I concur here.
It's really a classic supply and demand issue. QI is attempting to regulate the supply of chapters to increases the demand and thus gets readers to spend more money. Most of the outcry since premium has gone live is because the supply has been reduced. Only getting 7 chapters a week instead of 21 etc.
Think of a drug user who has to pay more for their drugs when previously it was very cheap or even free. They will scream and scream but will most likely still attempt to get a fix.
Users have two options.
1. Pay more for their fix(chapters).
2. Cut back on their use.
3. Find another source for their fix. This is where things get interesting.
A. They can look for similar substances (Other stories). Possibly finding something they like better.
or
B. They can steal to get their fix. Maybe they steal from their drug dealer or do whatever they need to do to get their fix.
We are seeing both at the moment.
This is also where a reputation can matter
Imagine:
Drug dealer A is a good guy, but needs to make some money(maybe he needs to cover his use). When you have some money you don't mind helping him out (Plus you get your fix!)
Next,
Imagine Drug dealer B is an asshole. Maybe he steals from other dealers, starts fights all the time or cuts his shit. The nerve!
Which would you rather get your shit from??
KingBiBiK
As I said, if everything is to go black and white, you need to get a proper contract, i.e., that revocable clause. That at least authorizes you to post on Patreon and take the earnings for yourself. And if it's revoked, that is entirely in the other party's right to do so. What's the problem with that? Just because I end up earning less? Am I being entitled if I'm thinking that way?
That's fine. If you know you are in the wrong, take it down immediately when you realize the relationship has soured and it is no longer 'legal' to do so. But no they didn't, because it's lucrative to keep Patreon up and earn money without compensating the authors.
CKtalon WW paid an undisclosed 6-digit figure for 20 novels (which isn't a lot considering there are 20 books). They also have the rights to publish ebooks and they have to share profits with QI on ebooks. Other than that, nothing else.
I don't know. This is niche community. But I feel like that's a huge amount of money if the undisclosed figure is close to $500k or above (heard $400k debate once in the forum). Never run a website. So I don't know if they can earn this money back with ad revenue and ebook alone...............
1000% agree that the patreon income should be shared with authors. I always have said that everywhere and whenever I am asked. Author is the BOSS and he/she should get a good chunk of the patreon revenue. That's why I respect how you manage you patreon system.
CKtalon As I said, if everything is to go black and white, you need to get a proper contract, i.e., that revocable clause. That at least authorizes you to post on Patreon and take the earnings for yourself. And if it's revoked, that is entirely in the other party's right to do so. What's the problem with that? Just because I end up earning less? Am I being entitled if I'm thinking that way?
Your situation is simple. Premium means revoked. But I am just generalizing how that can be exploited if there is no proper clause.