"He who racks patience, racks honor"
-anonymous
Western books will be inaccessible unless you bought it, while books here will be available for free if you can wait. You also fail to see that the SS system is more of an encouragement for users to be active, the whole purchase thing is just a bait for the whales. Heck, they are probably not that optimistic on catching one everyday.
bachingchung Western books will be inaccessible unless you bought it
But Libraries, pretty sure they're free so long as you're there.
bachingchung You also fail to see that the SS system is more of an encouragement for users to be active, the whole purchase thing is just a bait for the whales.
Yea the payments are towards whales, I'm just a piece of algae on the surface. Also, I thought I made it clear, I agree with what they do. I like how there is the ability to gain chapters for free through the SS system, they are the only ones who do that. It creates retention, its a good business move. I touched on it slightly but it wasn't the main focus of the post.
Bronzeapollo You on average on WN get 1-4 free chapters a day depending on your level and novel. After 11-45 days you would have made, by MW standards, $185.
Bronzeapollo In the end both didn't matter. I only cared about whether a novel had a 'stable' translation speed. I don't need a fast. I need a completed one.
Your calculation is correct. WN Premium is cheaper for Whale. Perhaps you could use just 1 novel for explanation. Lol.
For a note, some Patreon only gave because they want to support. Most would opt for $5/10/20/50. $100 is rare. Economically being a Patreon didn't give you anything.
Some said that QiDian price is cheaper than WN. Don't know whether it is the truth. Can't check Chinese.
This is another calculation from WW forum.
https://forum.wuxiaworld.com/discussion/10029/sponsorship-pricing-model
Is it bad? I am still proponent of Patreon system than Premium System used by WN. You become a patron to support. It is more expensive to become a sponsor.
Bronzeapollo who would go to a library just to read for leisure? School libraries are packed with books but they don't let outsiders take it out. Also if you wanna read, downloading epubs are better instead of reading it here. They Ad walled the earlier free chapters.
MasterRabbink premium system calculations aren't fixed, it's subjected to every reader. Besides, no idiot would actually spend a lot of money here with NU and WW lurking around.
MasterRabbink Your calculation is correct. WN Premium is cheaper for Whale. Perhaps you could use just 1 novel for explanation. Lol.
Bronzeapollo If I were to only do WN at the cost of only one novel versus the whole site, the prices aren't even close. 200 - 500 chapters at the cost 6-18 SS we get to less than $300. So yea, WN keep the SS system don't go to monthly payments. I like cheap, me cheap.
As a further point to this:
Bronzeapollo You on average on WN get 1-4 free chapters a day depending on your level and novel. After 11-45 days you would have made, by MW standards, $185.
MasterRabbink For a note, some Patreon only gave because they want to support. Most would opt for $5/10/20/50. $100 is rare. Economically being a Patreon didn't give you anything.
You're right they don't give anything that is the flaw in my eyes. If I give $20, and I only get six chapters I'm paying ~4 dollars a chapter. I know it goes more towards the translator than SS but it hurts inside.
I also agree with the calculations of the OP of that WW post.
MasterRabbink Is it bad? I am still proponent of Patreon system than Premium System used by WN. You become a patron to support. It is more expensive to become a sponsor.
You're right, I'll be honest though; when I do something I look at price versus benefit first. If I'm looking to donate without benefit I would give to the author and translator directly not through a third-party.
(Also sorry my OP wasn't very organized, but I think I hit every point.)
bachingchung who would go to a library just to read for leisure?
Me? Guess I'm weird, I even still have a library card.
bachingchung They Ad walled the earlier free chapters.
Who did? I feel like I missed something.
Bronzeapollo about the ad wall. Novels hosted at WN that had two chapters ad walled now have about 10 or more chapters ad walled. Not sure why the other person brought it up but that is what he was talking about.
Dontlookdown Ad-wall is when they give the option of 4 SS or the 30 second video right? Can I have that for every premium chapter? I'd create a bot that scrolls and watches the ads and then wake up to a free set of chapters. In my eyes 300 second or well 5 minutes is nothing. Just press ad while you read the previous chapter by the time you're done so is the ad. Yay still free and nothing lost. Sorry if this seemed snarky its 11 pm and been walking in the hot sun.
The intentions of the words wouldn't change just the way they are written.
As Abraham once said,
'Free stuff good
Not free stuff bad'
Well, to be honest, I don't care about how much Webnovel requests per chapters. What I care about is Webnovels attitude and the weird crap they do.
I've asked several(I think, I forgot) questions but none have been answer(I believe they are important). They were about contests and such.
And also the fact they're making non-premium chapters locked(Making the chapters, old and new, 'bonus chapters')..
Which is why I won't spend a cent(Although, me not spending money here won't change a single thing - I was just saying I don't want to waste money on something that could change drastically later - Made that mistake too many times)
Bronzeapollo Good points, but to be frank, this post had no economic theory in it really.
Bronzeapollo there are a bunch of complaints in the forum that after ch 100, they are locked. Either pay SS or watch Ads.
That's nice that you still go there, but I prefer reading at home so I can lay down. Reading for hours while seating in public is tiring and hurts my back.
TargetPractice1 There was no need for it in what I was trying to convey. I can sit here and talk about supply and demand, or how one plan could lead to a greater outcome for the companies. But for the forum post, I was only looking to explain cost vs benefit.
bachingchung I feel like I somehow miss these stories. Give me a moment I want to see this.
Looks to be something with the newer novels. I've not read a new novel since Gate of God so I missed this whole scene.
You can just click the ad button for the chapter while you read the chapter before. Its annoying but I don't see it as something to complain about. A snowball has to start somewhere though.
Bronzeapollo they are complaining because they used to be free. It's a hassle to wait for 30 sec. During the best part. It kinda kills the mood.
bachingchung Wish only an 'image' ads. I don't know how much the difference.
You are missing the big point, in the novel reading community majority are free readers and to them it doesn't matter that the other person is x chap ahead in patreon as he knows that the value he and the patreon user getting is same, same amount of chap/day. This is the problem in webnovel system as the people who pay get more value than the people who read for free when earlier they were getting more value.If you are an econ major you can at least know this right.
The part about what webnovel offers more than patreon or sponsorship system is 100 % true "but only for paying readers" who are a minority. You know that when webnovel entered the game it said no paywall would be implemented so premium with increasing stockpile feels pretty much like paywall so another point. Do you know when people complain the most when the thing they were getting for free suddenly halved or not getting free at all. That's why people complain. Also to most people the majority these novels started as a hobby so according to them the value of the book here which is several times greater than a western book which they deem to be better than these webnovels is not justified (really you can't say lohp is better than most english novels). Also a pretty decent point could be this that the patreon system does not incite to pay while webnovel model incites users to pay with their increasing gap of premium chap between regular and user who pays.
As a econ major you must have learnt to analyse the situation and free things also play a part in economy so all i say your analysis was not complete. I don't know about what kindle unlimited offers but i think for most readers the value of webnovel is not same as netflix/ hulu
Also webnovel is making completed premium novels stay premium after around 100 chapters while WW's completed novels become free. This will hurt future users because i don't think people will be willing to spend major money on a book after seeing only the slow build up of most novels.
ek123 This is the problem in webnovel system as the people who pay get more value than the people who read for free when earlier they were getting more value
Uhhh this is how payments work. I give you money I get ahead of people who don't. Disney fast pass would be a good example. I give you money and well I get to "cut" the line.
ek123 You know that when webnovel entered the game it said no paywall would be implemented so premium with increasing stockpile feels pretty much like paywall so another point.
There is no paywall, it is something that could lead to a paywall BUT it is on its own NOT a paywall.
ek123 Also to most people the majority these novels started as a hobby so according to them the value of the book here which is several times greater than a western book which they deem to be better than these webnovels is not justified (really you can't say lohp is better than most english novels).
LOHP is way better than most other books I read. We all enjoy different styles of writing, I personally dislike english book more than most Asian books. I may be in a minority though and am willing to admit that.
ek123 Also a pretty decent point could be this that the patreon system does not incite to pay while webnovel model incites users to pay with their increasing gap of premium chap between regular and user who pays.
Yes, it is a visible difference, unlike patreon which is invisible. If you can see what you get by paying you are more likely to buy. It's a business move and not one I will complain about.
ek123 Do you know when people complain the most when the thing they were getting for free suddenly halved or not getting free at all.
I have no problem with people complaining it is how things change. I also hold my right to not complain as I don't see it as a problem, but I can understand how others may see it as one. I've stated my opinion multiple times on this subject already.
ek123 As a econ major you must have learnt to analyse the situation and free things also play a part in economy so all i say your analysis was not complete. I don't know about what kindle unlimited offers but i think for most readers the value of webnovel is not same as netflix/ hulu
I would argue the value of webnovel can be seen as more than netflix/hulu, at least to me. How many hours a day do you spend on this site? Me, it's 15+, if this site isn't open in my tabs it is weird. Netflix/Hulu I actually don't use anymore, I'm not a movie person. I only have a Netflix because it comes with my phone plan. Then again, I'm a minority.
Also free does play a part, and WN plays greatly with free/payments. By giving free SS you are more entailed to buy SS when you run out.
I'll again pull an example from Disney. Their DVC give a lecture every so often and when you go they give fast passes and money. They also pull you to become DVC. They pull you in with free and then boom payment. WN does a similar thing with SS.
In closing, I would say I analyzed the situation pretty well. I'm also willing to admit I may have made mistakes places. Also please use a grammar checker next time, it was hard to understand at points =D, thank you!
I completely agree and am willing to bet if they make no money and lose in the long run they will change away from this. I don't know any examples but MMO I know falls under completed but premium but BTTH is completed and free.
But then again no clue, it is a winning situation so long as one person buys one chapter. They would have to scare more people away then the amount they make by the few who stay. Just my own two cents though.
poe_fan Patreon system will hurt AUTHOR and TRANSLATOR because i think people will not spend any money on a FREE completed book. (They made Amazon ebook. I don't know whether it would be success.) A sample method is work (check Google Book and Amazon, they offered shorter sample and it works. This is why most web novel had good 'starting' story.)
I still believe in Patreon. However, there is a weakness in Patreon method. Which is completed work didn't generate money again. (This offset by higher profit (for now) for Patreon novel). However, the wider readers offset the weakness in my opinion. Author could use that to BUILD 'brand' reputation.
For example I Eat Tomatoes might not be popular in western market if his novels are paid. Even Eastern Fantasy genre were popular because fans translation brought it for free to English Speaking market.
So this is why I am proponent of Patreon method even as an author and especially as a reader. Quote from Icez, "Free is the best option".
However, for some authors... giving their book for free made them no monetary gain. You can't write/translate forever while your story will live forever.
I don't know whether WN will do it, but they should give a HUGE discount/SS cashback for people who unlock a full novel (or perhaps had unlock all chapters).
Bronzeapollo There is no paywall, it is something that could lead to a paywall BUT it is on its own NOT a paywall.
You should calculate whether a Free reader could read a novel without paying anything if (s)he patient. Everyday you get around 20 free spirit stones. How many chapters releases per day? I believe it is around 2 per day.
I think the difference in WW, a reader could read MANY books free. While in WN you could only read 1 book free while waited for daily unlock for the rest. Which is mostly free too as long as you could wait. Perhaps waiting for the 2 weeks temporary unlocks after a completed novel (might be changed by WN. Lol.).
Bronzeapollo Uhhh this is how payments work. I give you money I get ahead of people who don't. Disney fast pass would be a good example. I give you money and well I get to "cut" the line.
In other fields this is the norm and is accepted but here in this community people don't like that as most of them are free readers and are used to the free treatment. My post was an answer to why people complain. It should be like as you said but in other fields people appreciate the goods so they are content with higher cost higher value, but here people generally don't feel what they get is worth the cost. You took my line out of context or may not have understood my intent. I never said payments should not work that way but that why people complain. My personal thought is that this is their product and they should monetize it if they want to do it.
Bronzeapollo You know that when webnovel entered the game it said no paywall would be implemented so premium with increasing stockpile feels pretty much like paywall so another point.
I never said it is a paywall, I said it feels like a paywall to the complaining people. I am not sure of this but I have read somewhere that some novels have become locked and paywalled
Bronzeapollo Also please use a grammar checker next time, it was hard to understand at points =D, thank you!
I made a bunch of mistakes of mistakes, but I don't think that was hard to understand. It was a long post and somewhere along the line, I got careless.
Bronzeapollo I would argue the value of webnovel can be seen as more than netflix/hulu, at least to me. How many hours a day do you spend on this site? Me, it's 15+, if this site isn't open in my tabs it is weird. Netflix/Hulu I actually don't use anymore, I'm not a movie person. I only have a Netflix because it comes with my phone plan. Then again, I'm a minority.
I made that post based on what are the opinions of the majority. I don't spend 15 hours a day on this website though only half an hour or so. Everyone has their own opinions.
For readers who pay there is no doubt webnovel system is better.
MasterRabbink You should calculate whether a Free reader could read a novel without paying anything if (s)he patient. Everyday you get around 20 free spirit stones. How many chapters releases per day? I believe it is around 2 per day.
Depends on the novel. You can unlock 5 "bonus chapters" 2-3 premium chapters or 1 Release that Witch chapter.
I'll use MMO as my example, it costs anywhere between 10-18 for a chapter. Most times costing less than 14. So at it with 20 SS a day you would get 6 extra so 2 every 3 days. It will take 756 days if you waited at one chapter a day. With the extra chapter every 3 days you would get 504 days.
I dislike this as before it was finished it was free. It is the closest, so far, to a paywall.
