Webnovel.Forum

Jhon_Doe11 Может прозвучать неправильно, но тут как в анекдоте про религию: "Многие не понимают как работает религия, надо не просить у Бога велосипед, а взять его самому и потом просить за это прощения".
С тем как работают комьюнити менеджеры здесь, да и англоязычные в вообще, им абсолютно все равно на любой перевод любой их работы. Рулейт же существует, и даже свободно получает деньги за перевод здешних новел.

Звучит конечно как будто я провоцирую тебя на кражу, но в данном случае можно поспорить (и только в данном случае, в с этой конкретной книгой). В DMCA есть такое понятие как "Добросовестное использование", которое допускает использование лицензионного материала, без согласия автора и/или правообладателя до тех пор, пока оно способствует «прогрессу науки и полезных искусств»

Есть четыре пункта, по которым оценивают правомерность такого использования:
1. цель и характер использования, включая вопрос, содержит ли такое использование коммерческий характер или служит некоммерческим образовательным целям;
Ты используешь перевод в не коммерческих целях, не пытаешься получить за него прибыль, то все будет в порядке. И используешь его в целях образования себя и других начинающих авторов.

2. сущность произведения, охраняемого авторским правом;
Ты переводишь, по сути, краткое руководство для начинающих авторов, которое изначально находится в открытом доступе. И не направлено на получение прибыли, и является обучающим материалом. И его перевод тоже является таковым.

3. величина и существенность использованной части по отношению ко всему произведению, защищённого авторским правом; и
Да, тут конечно не все гладко, т.к. ты просто переводишь, не добавляя ничего нового. Но мне кажется что часть про существенность может оправдать это. Хоть частичный, хоть полный перевод не влияет на коммерческую составляющую данной книги (она изначально нулевая).

4. влияние использования на потенциальный рынок или стоимость произведения, защищённого авторским правом.
Влияние на рынок или стоимость произведения ты не оказываешь. У переводимой тобой книги нет никакой стоимости, она находится в публичном доступе, и не закрыта для ознакомления. Ее перевод не повлияет на потенциальный рынок, потому что направлен на разные аудитории. И твой перевод не обесценит данную книгу, т.к. у нее просто нет стоимости, она и так бесплатна.

Опираясь на все это, как мне кажется, можно свободно переводить и публиковать. Для подстраховки можешь в конце каждой главы указать что данный перевод осуществлен в целях добросовестного использования (Fair Use), и публиковать ссылку на оригинал.
Я думаю менеджер ответивший тебе или просто написал стандартный шаблон про невозможность использования, и не разобрался в вопросе, не подумав про добросовестное использование (на него обычно никто не просит разрешение), а решил что ты просишь разрешение на коммерчески важный продукт, или в коммерческих целях. Или, банально, политика фирмы - "все наше, использовать нельзя, без исключений". Независимо от логичности или значимости исключений, проще же отказать и не париться, чем думать и обрабатывать сотни вариантов исключений. Да и менеджер может не иметь права на выдачу разрешения, и что бы не беспокоить начальство по пустякам просто поступил по шаблону.

Yume97 Do you understand the difference between Android and Apple? And witch one uses iOS?
And what device you have?
For Apple last version 4.2.0.
For Android 4.2.2

So, Fast Pass is equal to 8-13 SS. And it's supposed to be a part of substitution to free SS.

Previously any reader could have ~18-24 SS from login + multiplying (now it's 10), and 50 per week (now 30, or 20? Let's take 30), and 5SS per day from watching a video. So, overall, any reader will have 125-153 SS less per week (that's 10-15 chapters per week), and instead, we get a Fast Pass that we can get by inviting friends (which is limited to 10 per account, afaik). And some mythical tasks, which we may or may not get later.

I can already see how thousands, no millions of readers registering here to use all of those features. I can't wait to strategically use one of those Fast Passes, that I might get one or two per week. That is so exciting to be a strategical reader.

That is, undoubtedly, great change. It couldn't be any better. Even if I try, I think I'm can't come up with greater change for a system. Way to go Webnovel, can't wait to see more exciting features and changes that waiting for us.

/s

Tomoyuki Of course I am. Because we writers only earn 2 cents for every 200 words. We earn like 20 cents per every chapter (considering an average of 2,000 words per chapter). TWENTY CENTS! And you're saying we should earn less because we...are amateur?! Why you don't you ask us to write for free then? Oh, you want us to earn like...I don't know, 1 cent for each chapter that we spend a couple of hours writing?!

Should i point to you that a lot of works (novels, comics, etc.) that posted for free currently? Even those that you mentioned as examples.
https://www.webtoons.com/ - hundreds of comics are free.
Almost all of the Asian novels, that you mentioned, were posted for free at the beginning with tens of volumes for free, for example, "Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?" has 555 free chapters here: http://ncode.syosetu.com/n7975cr/. it's 20 volumes or something.
Lazy Dungeon Master - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5490cq/ 455 chapters with 31 volumes for free, and the author still continues his WN for free while publishing LN version.
Tate no Yuusha no Nariagari - http://ncode.syosetu.com/n3009bk 963(!) chapters for free.
Dungeon Defence - 5 free volumes, with 300+ chapters.
I could go on for a long time, there are thousands of examples like that. Especially with Japanese novels.

IET got his contract in the middle of his first 6 million characters novel. So, he wrote, chapters with like 3 million characters for free, Coiling Dragon that you mentioned are his third novel. By the time he became a full-time author, he wrote like 20 million characters for all his novels.
Do you aware how many Er Gen wrote before he got his first payment?

One of the books that i liked (and bought later to read redacted versions): https://thegam3.com/ 6 whole books posted for free.
A lot of professions/jobs have a non-profit beginning stage. That sometimes lasts for a year, at least.

I'm not saying that all of the authors should absolutely go through that free work period, but there is nothing wrong with doing that at the beginning to establish a reputation and earn your name. And with all of those examples, we could see that it's possible to start as an author by working for free at the beginning. And nothing wrong with it.

Tomoyuki And here you are whining about how we are over-earning, or over-charging readers.

Wait, wait. That's not true. First thing that I said - was an objection to a statement that a job as a writer are really hard. I made a comparison with jobs that i think are really hard. I had an answer like "try to write X words every day, for 4 hours", which is (if you actually consider yourself an author, and writing as your job) are literally means "try to do your job for 4 hours every day". Topic of conversation got shifted from that, but it wasn't a conversation with you, it was with some rude blockhead, who starts his first reply to me with insults.

I'm against prices for SS here, but it's webnovel who pays you a portion from those SS. And determines how much exactly you gain from it. They can raise prices 2x time, and pay you 2x less if they want, then you will argue that prices for SS are too cheap coz you earn so little?
Plus I can even like your novel, read it first thing every day, and it will be paid with free SS (they gain priority). So you gain less than a worse novel that i read at the end with bought SS.
I think that prices are too high, and Qidian didn't have any regional system, so readers from countries with monthly income $100-250 must pay the same $10 for 500SS (which is a lot for them).
I think that there is no system for buying a lot of chapters to catch up. Spending $20-30 a month to read novels that i like, it's possible. Spend $300 to catch up to the last chapter for one novel only, while it's still not finished - I'm sorry, but that's too much, at least to my country with my salary.
I think that the whole system here unbalanced and unpolished, while you are defending it.
Edit. And i don't think that recent changes to free SS wrong. It's a change, and it's a movement somewhere from the current state. But i think that it's done poorly, that they changed only one side of a system, which should be balanced as a whole.

Tomoyuki For example, let's take Arifureta Shokuyou de Sekai Saikyou, for example. The original novel has almost 400 chapters. Did Kadokawa package all 400 chapters into a single "novel"? No, they didn't. They divided it into volumes, each featuring 10 chapters, and about 250 pages per volume (that's about 75,000 words per volume).

Well, yes and no. They did split 400 chapters into a volume, but not with "each featuring 10 chapters".
Each volume had a clear "ending". In the first volume, MC left the labyrinth, in second - met rabbit girl, and his journey to the second labyrinth, etc. (i dropped that novel somewhere in the middle, so I don't remember endings of other volumes, and i'm not sure how many chapters were in each volume).

Coiling Dragon had 23 chapters in the first volume, 17 in fifth, 32 in the sixth, and 64 in the 19th and 44 in the last one (i can write chapters count for every volume, that' jus few of them for examples). It wasn't split like you said "20 chapters per volume". And the difference in price between 5 and 19 is not 3 times, which according to your logic should be since 19 volume has 3 times more chapters (and word count) in it.

Also, don't forget that the current payment system and prices for chapters in webnovel.com were established on quidan.com based on prices 100 SS = 1 RMB ~= $0.16 (then, now it's $0.14). And you are trying to defend current prices of 500 SS = $10 USD with the same system and SS prices for chapters.

Tomoyuki J. K. Rowling's Goblet of Fire was twice the price of her earlier books because it was twice the length

Right, it didn't have any impact from rising popularity, shooting movies at that time based on books, etc. etc. Just from a word count.

P.S. webnovel.com is a platform for new and amateur writers, are you seriously expecting that your books should be paid as books of Rowling, Martin, and other already famous writers?
Or famous Asian series, witch had anime/mangas, etc. and other stuff based on them?

Tomoyuki Who the hell calculates an entire series that's hundreds or even thousands of chapters long as one novel?

I don't want to argue prices, just an opinion: when people think of a book, they like to think that a story in one book/volume has a clear ending (or an ending with continuation in another book/volume). And they didn't want to buy another book/volume to finish a storyline of a volume.

And what you doing here:

Tomoyuki 200 chapters is basically the equivalent of 10 to 20 volumes.

goes against logic what book is, where you taking random 200 chapters, and just split it to volumes.

Usually, one volume of web novel has 90-130 chapters (differs not just between novels, even the same novel can have differences like that in volumes).

And when I'm buying a book, I'm buying a story as a whole, I don't care will there bee 800 or 750 pages (or equal amount of words/chapters), while you sticking to prices for wordcount.
And I think that every author gets paid for a book by the number of books was bought/printed, not for amount of words in it.
And the job where you got paid for wordcount are copywriter, not the book author.
Pls, correct me if I'm wrong.

Cantiara Clearly he didn't read the whole discussions in the thread and just jumped inside a running train, and hence is missing some of the points that have already been made.

No, I remember your post. It was early in the topic. #24 according to a slider.
While my first message was #70, and on completely another topic, and i don't have a habit while reading few last (unread) messages in a thread - reread whole thread.

Besides, your message was quoted in other threads, and in some of them there were messages that you calculated price for SS for Chinese readers incorrectly. So, i didn't bother remembering your post, since your whole calculation was wrong.

Tomoyuki I said the whole story from the first chapter until the last usually takes 1200-1400 chapters.
If we look just for prices, whole story here will cost to a reader ~$400, which is equivalent of 20-25 (in price) books.

Are you suggesting that one web novel is equal to 20-25 books? because according to prices here - it is.

And then i asked: is anyone wants to do the math to huge web novels here, with 2000+ chapters. How many books does that story equal to? And are these prices seems fair to you?

MotivatedSloth Do you know how this kind of behaviour is called? It's hypocrisy.

No, it's not. Hypocrisy, in basic terms, is when you mask bad intentions in a righteous cause.
So, what cause did i masked and where? I saw Tomoyuki declaring that writing is a hard job. It's a job, but it's not hard, in my opinion.
Since he spoke about writing in a vacuum, i brought some of the jobs as a scale.
I never masked anything, that's not hypocrisy. I might be mistaken, from your point of view, but I didn't mask anything under anything.

Yeah, i admit that i was harsh replying to childish statements like:

MotivatedSloth Only when you do so, you will have the right to speak to me
MotivatedSloth Are you sane or are you soo immersed in your previous age

But that's my mistake. I always forget, when you speak with idiots you don't go to their level of thoughts. They just crush you with experience in those filed.
I'm still harsh? Yeah, but what did MotivatedSloth expect starting our conversation from those lines?
Who does he think he is, that he's allowed to start a conversation with those phrases?
That's literally quotes from the first message that he wrote to me.

Tomoyuki And also, the amount of money you spend on a webnovel (what, $6 for 30 chapters?)

500 SS = $10.
While a single chapter (at least in novels that i'm reading) costs 14-18 SS. So it's $10 for ~31 chapters.
And how many chapters does your novel have? How many are you planning it to have?
From what i saw (for a properly finished, not dropped novels) it's at least 1200-1400. Minus first 100, or 150 which is free. It's ~$400 for a story.
Just like you said before, hard book costs $15-20.

Do you want to tell me that your story will be like 20-25 real books? Or correct me if i'm wrong with the math.

And let's mention some of huge books with 2000+ chapters, anyone wants to calculate costs?

Right. Seems rather reasonable?