Webnovel.Forum

Lagrange7 Well... Splitting SS is pretty straightforward. Someone pays SS for the chapter, Qidian gets this amount, the author gets this amount, the translator gets this amount.
Splitting a subscription is different though. Are you going to split it evenly among the novels they chose for the month? Or are you going to split it according to the length of the novel? Are you going to track the chapters they read and split it that way? Or possibly split it according to word count? It can be very complicated, and every method has issues.
Well, it's a different meaning of fail. Subs work to an extent. There are still games that do subs and have been doing them for 10+ years. Though, most of them have switched to a hybrid system of sorts. However, especially with low quality work like this, subscriptions aren't going to be very appealing for long.

Well, the thing about the authors is somewhat ambiguous. But it's an ambiguous statement that came from a translator. And, legally speaking, it's still their story, so I'm pretty sure they get something.

Qidian... Yeah.

bachingchung Have you ever thought of some people actually not being on this site for a month or two? To some this IS actually new.

Not to me tho, i just like to take my time to put my opinion about things together.

lozlo Considering the author doesnt get anything when we use free SS to pay him i think this system is kinda ripping the author off. Most seem to be fine with it tho, which is kinda sad tbh.

Regarding splitting the sub-amount per month: I was thinking to about an even split between novels with minimum amounts. Basically, every author gets SOME money, but you can use a slider or just put in % to allocate an author more or less. If authors try to abuse this system by releasing less chapters readers would use their "slots" on other novels and the author gets nothing or a very small amount of money. If the novel sucks same. If your story is awesome and has a stable release people will probably want to reward you for it, making you earn more money and having time to focus on the novel. Its a virtuous cycle, the opposite of the "RELEASE ALL THE TIME AND BEG FOR DEM POWASTONES OR DROP IN RANKING AND FADE TO OBSCURITY"- mode of operation we have right now. Its just not a good enviroment to create a literary work of art is what im saying.

On the other hand my proposal would give more control to the readers while ending the current system of buying chapters which might or might not be filler. If you want more novels to read you can either upgrade your subscription-level or purchase single "slots" which come at a fraction of the price of an upgrade. This way you pay a minimum amount (smallest subscription) towards the authors while still maintaining the flexibility to add more novels at a reasonable price.

I guess you are right, most subscription games i know off have some kind of ingame-cash-shop.
We also have that with gifting the author, except we dont get jack in return...its kinda like a black hole for SS with nothing in return? A few hours or so earlier access to chapters in return or anything at all wouldve been nice...

Are these comments? Or some novel chapters?

Lagrange7 Well, first of all, you have to understand that, as I said before, the author got their money when they released it in their original language. The authors of these novels should be secondary at this point. It's the translators, and maybe editors, that are getting cheated 100%.
Second of all, you're speaking about an old community. People have been translating this stuff for free for years, which is why it's even popular in the first place and part of why I say the translators are the ones getting cheated. The Chinese authors and Qidian did jack shit to create or support this community. Qidian just swooped in and bullied their way into claiming some profit while destroying a system that, if there weren't too stupid to take advantage of, probably could have netted them far more money. I don't even remember what my second point was now... lol...

As for the ideas. They all have their benefits and losses. In the long run, the paywall probably makes the most, but I question how much it will really make with the overpriced SS they have now. They're basically begging people to pirate it with these prices. And their wish has been granted as far as I know.

I guess in that aspect games are a little different. Games NEED more players, even if they aren't paying, because the players who are paying don't want to play alone. They need to form parties, and they need to have people to compete with. Possibly even people to show off what they blew last weeks paycheck on, lol.
Novels don't need that. They do need publicity though. So maybe it's a toss up?

DrunkenShadow We're practicing our poetry skills bro. You should join us. Write us a poem.

lozlo

Ok i guess i didnt consider the long history of haphazardly translated novels on obscure websites. Thats actually how i found and got into light novels in the first place, lol.

Yeah, the more and more i read about Qidians business-practices (if you can call them that) the less i like them.

EA of light novels i suppose...

Lagrange7 nah, the main problem root from ignorance and not reading the announcements. I'm already aware that this will happen a while ago since WN is on the stage of infancy, they considered it as a promo period. Then the successful novels will be Ad walled, premium then fully pay walled. I think it was on FAQs or BoA. So it's not surprising. Yet a lot of people still post the same sh!t everyday, typical. All rant yet they never bother to read the forums. Besides there are a lot of solutions posted to the older threads already, they are being highlighted till now.

lozlo The authors of these novels should be secondary at this point.

It depends on the contract. If they sold the rights of their novels to QI then yeah, but since those authors could still call some shots, it's safe to assume that they have royalty based contracts. As long as QI make money out of their novels, they are legally obliged to pay them. So you can't really put them before TLs and EDs.

bachingchung That's why I say secondary and not that they are completely unrelated. It's still their work, and they should receive something for it. But the people who worked to get it here in English are the translators, not Qidian and not the authors. Of course, there is an issue regarding contracts, so there is a lot to take into account depending on the terms of that contract. But, even so, the authors should be second. Their books are worthless here without translators. Much like how authors use to be nothing without a publisher and an editor. I believe that has changed over the years, but that's just a guess after considering amazon, kindle, etc. Even now, authors are probably still second place, but it's probably not as bad as it was in the past.
But, I guess with all that said, popular authors are a different story. They do get to throw their weight around, even in places they shouldn't have weight to throw. And, some of these authors ARE quite popular in China and in this... community?

WigglerGod Yeah, thats what i often read and the reason i was proposing a premium model with variable amounts. People are ready to pay for their entertainment, but they will never be willing to get screwed over for it (dont factcheck that).

lozlo the previous translators were doing it as a hobby with around 2-5 chapters a week, that's why QI contracted these TLs and EDs for a steady pay and stable 7-14 ch/wk. Even back then these TLs have reserved or lock chapters that could be seen through paid subscription. Everyone kept praising the old Patreon pages when $ 1 could only make you read 2-5 chapters ahead per month. depends on the translator. Some translators don't even translate unless the donation pool is filled.

bachingchung we aren't in China, look at YOUR reality

bachingchung What you don't seem to understand is that, we don't HAVE to get used to anything, also respect goes both ways okay

sinx facepalm you're hopeless.

bachingchung I don't believe for a second that they did it for those reasons. However, it is true that there are a lot more novels out, and some of the projects are coming out faster. So there are upsides.
As for those locked chapters via patreon. That's true, but they had a more involved system than what you're mentioning. The good ones released more chapters per week/day according to the total donations, on top of giving early access. And, the ones that did that really raked in some money. Also, those are the projects they went after first. But, nothing in life is simple, so I'm sure there are other hidden issues as well.

bachingchung No, i live in a Place called Real World, where Reality exists...

lol! The whole 'well, if I translate it into a different language, I should get that copyright' argument again, only wearing different clothes...

If it was MY work, you'd be hit with a DMCA so fast, your heads would spin and you'd be crying because I would go after every single cent you made off my stuff without my permission. I think WN was being pretty soft and obliging when they officially showed up in the English market. Arrggh...now i want my writer's block back!

bachingchung Chapters in China are also a lot more cheaper

Dontlookdown
ker0ppi well that's because it only involved 1 team, the translated version will have to pay royalties to the raws then pay more for ENG TLs and EDs. Imported products will always be more expensive than local prices.

CKtalon indeed, some fools want to believe in their own ridiculous "reality". Those bunch of millenials only know how to be spoon fed and "it's my privileged" mind set. XD

Lagrange7 I was thinking about it randomly... To make sure there is no misunderstanding, this is what I would do from here, and I don't feel that it is the right choice or the best choice. It's just what I would do while moving forward. As I said before, all models have flaws.
Edit: This really doesn't look like something I thought of randomly... But you'll just have to take my word on it... I was eating breakfast, about to do some work on the side, and started thinking about it...

I would generally leave the current setup as it is. Changing the system would probably be more harmful than beneficial. The first thing I would do is create a second stone currency. There never should have been free and paid spirit stones. It should have been free spirit stones and some other kind of stone that you can only get if you pay for it.
The spirit stones would be a participation reward and their value would remain the same, as would the way they are calculated when used on novels. 200 words = 1ss.
I would leave the second stone at their current price, but greatly reduce the cost of novels that were read using those stones. Naturally, this would require the user to choose what method to pay with on premium chapters.
For the moment, I would go with 1, 2, and 3.
Here's where it gets tricky though. I wouldn't base the cost on word count. I'd base it on the popularity/quality of the previous "book." The first section, whether it's a book, half a book, or a set number of chapters, would be free. Then, carrying on with that pattern, the next section would be priced according to the overall popularity/quality of the first section. I would also split the ratings into two parts. One for the story and one for the translation quality, but only the quality of the story would determine the price. The quality of the translation would determine if the current translator got to keep their job, lol.

To encourage, yet limit, the participation values, I would change the way ss is given. I would limit the number of chapters you can rate per day, but it would be a reasonably high number. Something like 50, which should be fairly close to the number of chapters a reasonable person could read. Each vote would earn you something like 1 or 2 ss, up to the limited amount of ss. Which would be set at 10 or 20 a day I guess. Also, I would want to setup something in the background that would flag certain things to be checked. For example, any series that ranked 1-2 stars for over 3/4 of the ratings. Anyone who rated 1-2 starts 50 times in a row. Anyone who rated 50 stories a day, especially if it was all in one series.

As for the prices... Hrm... I would say 1 paid stone for a previous 1-3 star average. 2 paid stones for anything that was 3-4 star average, and 3 for anything that rated over 4 stars. But that's just a preliminary idea. It would have to be adjusted after considering other issues. Like people who go through and vote 1 star just to lower the paid cost, and people who get others to go through and vote 5 stars to increase the cost.
As a side note, the exact rating per book should not be listed. Instead, only the overall rating for the entire series should be listed. The paid stones required is all the information readers should need.

Hrm...There are a lot of other things that would need consideration, but I'm tired of rambling, and I have some things I need to stop slacking off on for a bit... T_T
I don't know if Qidian would even consider my ideas anyway. shrug

lozlo It will simply be unfair for all parties. So what happens when the previous book warrants a low price for the next book? Should the translator/author simply drop it since why waste efforts working on something that you know will earn you lesser? For authors, it's a natural choice, but for translations, it will only lead to numerous books with translators just dropping it. Also the highly dynamic nature of it makes this problematic for some translators. Some of them are living paycheck to paycheck on the work they do. Doubt people would like that.

Also the reason why word count is used is because that determines the amount of time you need to work on the translation of that chapter. If it's all the same or based on some dynamic pricing system, what happens when a translator encounters a 15,000 word chapter (I've faced that before)? 5-6x the usual work for the same pay? It will very likely drop the release rates as there's so much inertia to work on something like that.

Translation quality is hard to judge. The readers generally rate very high ratings for all the translations. Even the shittiest translations are something like a 4.2/5, and the highest is somewhat closer to 4.9. When you only have a 4.2 to 4.9 range, it's hard to determine if it's really due to translation quality or not, or simply that some NTR or rape happened in the plot (and how are you going to determine which one is it when there are thousands of chapters produced by Webnovel translators every month?). 'Educating' the readers to rate properly is an endeavor that's even more daunting.

The current system is working okay. The grumblings are mostly from the verbal minority.

CKtalon That could be true for the most part. The only thing I'm truly confident in is that there should have been two "currencies" from the start.
Everything else is a matter of opinion, unless it's put into practice in a way that allows comparison. And most people prefer to stay on once they mount the tiger. So that's one of the reasons I don't expect Qidian to consider anything said. Well, that and my low faith in them because they're completely untrustworthy. But that's to be expected from most businesses.

Agree to some extent. iv noticed that some of the novels Im reading here after getting premium the quality just drops. i got my library full of them but i cant seem to remove them so they just lay there as a reminder of what used to be good! this has forced me to go back to my old site that i dropped to come here, what a let down!
So sad! so sad!

Thebigbadwolf Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like you're saying you can't remove them from your library.
There should be at least two ways to do it. One is to go to your library and click edit, then remove them. The other way is to go to the novel and click the "in library" button at the top. I haven't done it recently, but I've done it in the past, and it worked.
If you've tried both of those methods and still can't remove them, then I guess it's a technical issue for the staff to deal with.

Thebigbadwolf Ah, I see. I guess I'm sort of doing that now. Finished unlocking a story that I probably won't get around to reading for a while. Now I'm unlocking another that probably won't even be finished for 6 months, so I'm not reading it currently either. But I probably will read them in the future. Right now I'm spending too much time worrying about some things that I need to get under control.

lozlo i feel you man, all we can do is endure and overcome!

lozlo Huh, so you would basically refine the current system to something more in line with the interests of the readers and push for more transparency regarding the novels quality. Thats actually more viable than the other stuff i read on here.

Lagrange7 Well, I like to think it supports the interests of everyone all around, lol.
It sets a lower price for people who are willing to pay. It encourages, but limits, participation. Sets a standard price of roughly 4 cents per chapter since very few novels should fall below the 3-star mark, but still leaves room for a boost if a novel is very, very popular. Which, the star rating for 3 stones would need to be set a little higher than I listed. It's also just a preliminary idea though. There are parts that would have to be fleshed out if any of it was actually considered. Maybe some of it's good, maybe some of it's bad. In the end, it's probably all irrelevant.