Webnovel.Forum

N0xiety Eh. Too many cooks spoil the broth, even if they're actively trying to work together. I'm definitely not a fan of multiple translators working on the same novel like that, and I've seen some of the problems that arise from it. I can often tell who is translating for that specific day and recognize when it switches off because people have their own methods and flavors even if they try to emulate another's.

In regards to dropping the project, that'll be something to discuss if it happens. It was a passion-project from the beginning with some personal connections to it, so while it's not an impossibility, it's not really... something to actively be concerned about, you know?

But yes, I do understand your point of view, I just don't ascribe to it likely because I'm one of the people who gets to work on it and see how things are progressing. For those who don't want to read it because it's too slow or because of the threat it won't be finished, I'll just have to ensure it's a good read so you can enjoy the finished product a few years from now instead.

Minor add, Tower of God is indeed amazing; compliments to your taste as well. Probably the story I've been following the longest in my lifetime, and I've not gone on too many hiatuses (occasionally a few weeks because of being too busy).

Nou It does give me some insight....I still think regardless you can have a clock in and out time. No one is saying 1 person needs to work and get paid on an hourly basis but they need to commit to a timeframe of work so that you can have multiple work on the same project. Whether is be 4 hours in the morning then 2 hours at night, but its noted so another person can work the time in-between get me?

1. You set your own work time, but it is a specific time! my point was only this since it makes it easier for the next person to pick up where you may have left off.

2. I think maybe because you are translating it may make more sense to change the pay rate to something more like per word.... Don't some journalists and such get paid by the word? Also different novels have different chapter lengths if you get paid the same for a chapter that is short and chapter that is long is a little unbalanced. Too slow to make a living off translating? Try running a hotdog stand on the side until you get better at the job you really want(assuming its translating). I actually wouldn't mind getting $5 per chapter when editing, if I were an editor because as a reader half the time I'm doing the job anyway! At least then I might get paid, instead of ignoring it or maybe putting in a comment or thread for the mistakes an editor should have caught. That's not to say I would make editing my main job, hell no! Not that I mind reading but, what if I end up with a book I hate? Could you imagine, we are not compatible for the long term.

The info was useful, but I still don't see the issue other than maybe with staff, if qidian wants to get larger it should start to expand no? It cannot have this small operation like it is now, Translators and editors should be held in a higher regard and to do that there needs to be a better structure than what it currently is cause its disappointing at times to find that novels have so many different release rates from 23ch per week to 4ch per week. The only excuse being....what? Not many people like the novel? Then let's make that a training novel to expand your staff.
To be clear I am not saying the system currently sucks, but its not optimal for large scale in my opinion, the library qidian has is getting larger and the flaws you have now will become bigger as you go. Everyone around here seems to think there is no way it can change or no way it can be better. I just think it's better to acknowledge something is flawed and find a way to fix it instead of saying "now way". Even my idea if it is not good find a better one but fix the flaw.

Though I do agree that its not streamlined for expansion.

Edit to above post:

Although not apparent to some people, the change in pacing, style, tone, and diction is noticeable to many others when there are multiple people editing and multiple people translating (esp when its a team of non-professionals with no style sheets and working for pennies). I just don't think Webnovel would be willing to invest in actual professionals so soon, as they're still trying to get into the English market. The cost alone is enormous for a true professionally-licensed translator/editor.

Nou

I have heard the saying before but there is always more than one chef in a kitchen! To make one dish takes many chefs, One chef make the broth, the other make the chicken, another making the greens boom you got yourself a Xianxia novel! lol.

But no seriously it's not like you wrote, though I do know your choosing the diction here so the flow may be impacted but the story being told will not be. Let's just focus on spelling those words right before we jump the gun in expecting a certain flow. But what I said supports this by the way, if you have multiple people working on and I will say it... PROJECT it is better to have those leads whose names will be in bold at the beginning of the movie and those who are mention as Man #1 and Man #2. lol. These project leads will be in charge of the novel as whole any of those "less skilled" translators mess up, it falls on those leads, so I think it makes sense they actually train them and get that shiz in order. In my opinion this role should be an Editor who will question the different translators word choice etc. Meetings will be held every 10 chapters to discuss the upcoming chapters and as a group they come to a conclusion etc. It can very well work out. (this would make a great novel by the way just imagine, How Qidian Mastered Translation Business in the Western World[too long of a title tbh]. "Alright! everybody listen up we have 100 novels this quarter, I expect nothing but the best" says Head Manager. "You're now part of my team so don't use stupid words like base instead of bass if I see that shiz on my desk you're fired. Understood?" Lmao!! My imagination kills me)

Anyhow you get where I am going with this, I can partially visualize it, when it comes to numbers I cannot say if it is profitable or not but yeah doable nonetheless. I definitely think you can apply the agile business method to translators and editors. It's originally for software development but it works as project management as well.

https://www.clarizen.com/business-agile-methodology-an-introduction/

Lonelytree The leads actually get paid hourly because they manage more than 1 project. The translators still get paid the same way before, but hopefully by word. If you really think its increased work without the return then hey, what do I know. I'm just thinking of ways you can optimize the process in the longer term without having to have such drastic difference in release rate.

Like I said there is a flaw, and there should be a better solution than just leaving it as is. Though you have to admit, it would be a cool novel!!!

Increasing the number of people working on a project increases the number of moving parts and requires more time devoted specifically towards maintenance. Translators often have different methodologies and preferences they use, and having three or so people translating means time is going to be required just to ensure they're consistent with each other, or you end up with choppy jumps and falls in quality on a per-chapter basis. I've actually witnessed this before as a reader, and it was legitimately disappointing at times to go to the next chapter and find out who it was done by.

Throwing money and people at a project also has diminishing returns, and there will almost always end up being a bottleneck that reduces efficiency even further. Why spend resources on a single novel with diminishing efficiency when those resources—translators especially—can be put to use on an entirely different novel? It's more cost-effective, and they're not hurting at all for material to translate.

Flaffy Translators and editors should be held in a higher regard and to do that there needs to be a better structure than what it currently is cause its disappointing at times to find that novels have so many different release rates from 23ch per week to 4ch per week. The only excuse being....what? Not many people like the novel? Then let's make that a training novel to expand your staff.

In this particular instance? The translator recently had a child and can't commit all of their day to it. In other instances, because not everyone is doing this as a full-time job—this is the "hotdog stand" for some people, to use that analogy.

Honestly, being "disappointed" that one novel is uploading at 23 and another is uploading at 4 is like being disappointed one artist is painting a lot of pictures and another artist isn't. This isn't coding, where there is a generally standardized process, a desired outcome with a very clear 1/0 pass/fail, and an end-user that isn't going to see specifically the constituent parts (so it doesn't matter who writes specific sections as long as it works). If that were the case, there wouldn't be so much variance between different translators, and automated machine translations could more or less handle everything.

It's also really sad to hear someone suggest certain novels be relegated to "training" novels, as though they are less deserving of attention and care. Again, this isn't programming where faulty code can be analyzed, rewritten, and streamlined piecemeal where necessary. A poor translation sticks and requires concentrated effort on its entirety to improve, otherwise you just get isolated pockets of "good" that make the "not good" stand out more.

ActiasLuna well what do I know about translating...it was just an idea.

Besides no one said anything about throwing money at someone, translators make their own money somehow these days never said they should get paid more to do more. That's up to your own "union" to decide if you're getting treated unfairly.

Also I already stated it won't be something random as you guys have it now but a team together who will work as a unit. IMO it's not like your writing a whole new novel you are just translating the words, then coming together for a meeting to decide if the flow of that chapter works for all of you. It would be a team effort and this is just on a grand scale. Maybe a team will start out with just 2 people and an editor at first. And a training novel, doesn't mean less deserving because at least the novel gets translated instead of it sitting there with NO CHAPTERS FOR MONTHS!!! I'm not saying they should submit a bad translation, someone said here that some translators have a slower speed, I would rather someone training to get better at translating take over a novel that NO ONE SEEMS TO HAVE TIME FOR than it just sit there especially since qidian already picked it up started translating and nothing happens after months.

I also was not talking about this particular novel, just the qidian operation with translators and editors as a whole. It may be more effective to assemble a team to get things done for more novels across the board, not a make shift team but one that communicates with each other on regular basis to decide the diction of the novel. Along with a team leader who will maintain the flow which you all speak of thjough I have probably never seen.

That analogy about artists is not really the same simply because pardon me if I sound offensive, I don't really understand what goes in to translating so as of this moment with my ignorance I don't consider translators as artists because all you guys are doing is rewriting an already written novel in a different language. The translated novel, the author is still the creditor for the awesome work. Translators to me are workers for a publisher or freelance people. A worker just builds things, by doing a particular job within the company, that's not to say just anyone can do your job but I'm sure many can be trained to do that job. You're not creating anything new you're finding words for other words. Now that job might be hard or easy depending on the person but nonetheless it's a job. The reason I feel disappointed is because the chapter releases for novels are so glaringly different for the same publishing company. Understand these are not released as books but if they were there should be dates for each book those release dates would have been set for a novel series for example that release might be every 6 months or every year, as the novel is already written like many on qidian are before translating. Another novel series with the exact same dynamic of multiple books would get a similar release rate of 6 months to a year, not 3 years just because they only had one translator working on it and that guy is now sick. To me that lacks insight for the company and total disregard for how the readers feel. When I logged into qidian first time I thought the novels would be in different places but had similar release times because it just made sense. Either all novels are close to 23 chapters a week or 4 chapters week. All I'm looking for is consistency!!

I honestly believe no one has even tried something different in an effort to make it so that the novel van go on when the sole translators go off to do other things....unless I am mistaken but I thought most translators came from freelancing and they usually did their own thing.

Billdoor is always saying that thing you said about spending money on a poor translation or put it on a new novel...well I would prefer before anyone picks up another novel you guys fix what's already broken. There are plenty of novels on qidian that need to be reviewed once more because there are already mistakes made by having the same translator do the editing for the novel, no editor for the novel or just plain carelessness. You make it seems like it's going to be perfectly fine, but there are kindergarteners mistakes in some of these novels. I haven't read all of the novels on qidian so I cannot speak for all of them but a good majority. I understand this isn't programming and you guys require a certain something that is making you all reluctant to work together but I think you need something, because one person working on a novel is impractical once qidian starts to translate more books unless you all go full time and even then I think if the process is the same where every translator just does what they want because that's their schedule then many novels will be affected needlessly because qidian put all their eggs in one basket instead of having a team or trained backups for novels.

GregLuck LMAO!!!!

Greg I will give you a hint to read my long monologues, just read the first sentence after the break. It says everything I want to say the rest of the words after that sentence are reasons why and what you should not think about the statement. I usually try to keep it in that structure, if you are lazy my whole post basically says:

Flaffy well what do I know about translating...it was just an idea. Besides no one said anything about throwing money at someone, translators make their own money somehow these days never said they should get paid more to do more....Also I already stated it won't be something random as you guys have it now but a team together who will work as a unit....I also was not talking about this particular novel, just the qidian operation with translators and editors as a whole...That analogy about artists is not really the same simply because pardon me if I sound offensive, I don't really understand what goes in to translating so as of this moment with my ignorance I don't consider translators as artists because all you guys are doing is rewriting an already written novel in a different language....I honestly believe no one has even tried something different in an effort to make it so that the novel van (look at this typo!! Just shameful! that's what I get for typing fast on my phone) go on when the sole translators go off to do other things...Billdoor is always saying that thing you said about spending money on a poor translation or put it on a new novel...well I would prefer before anyone picks up another novel you guys fix what's already broken.

Way shorter than my previous post eh? Just read the first sentence look at the rest if you still don't understand the sentence completely.

Flaffy
1. Is translation an art? I think this article summed up my thoughts on it: https://www.onehourtranslation.com/translation/blog/translation-art-or-science

2. To assemble teams in a way that you had suggested would cost QI as a company more money. For a team to perform well, it would require things such as coordinating with each other, meetings, etc. All these can be very time consuming, time which the translators/editors are not paid for as they are currently paid by chapter done.

This brings me to my next point. I personally think that there are only two types of translators/editors. Those who translate/edit for money and those who translate/edit for passion. The first group who work solely for money would most probably be less receptive to this idea which consumes more time for the same pay. As for the second group, well, they work for free (some earning a small amount of pocket money) as this is their passion/hobby. Even if we were to ignore the fact that most of those in this group consider multiple translators per novel is not desirable (for reasons stated multiple posts above), your idea would only work better when it’s a full time job (way too time consuming for it to work for translators who do this part time or are doing this as a hobby) instead of a passion project. So the only way to implement what you suggested would be to throw money at the first group, which at this point, QI considers to be not cost-effective. Of course, this is just my opinion as I am clueless on what the higher ups are thinking.