ActiasLuna
There really are a lot of spoiled readers out there. I even once saw someone leave a comment that he was feeling blue balled when a translator could only get out 1-3 chapters per day. It's crazy. They think just because a novel has +1000 chapters anything less than 10 chapters a day is being lazy. Can't help but feel its some kind of bad binge reading mentality. They don't actually care about the story, but the amount of new content they can absorb. They would even purposely for weeks stack dozens of chapters to read all at once. Those kinds of people aren't really fans of a novel.
Request to qidian
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N0xiety And some of those stories that are getting 10+ chapters a week have multiple concurrent translators and editors working on it at the same time. You're completely right that having different translators translating it during its lifetime often doesn't do it any favors, but that's precisely how some of the other stories keep up the pace they do. If you want to talk about the potential drop in quality that might come about if the translator stops translating, I argue that's built upon the assumption the translator will drop it to necessitate such a thing, and I'm not quite sure where that idea is coming from. Her having a child was one of the biggest life-changing moments it could have happened, yet the only change was reducing the number of chapters from five a week to four.
And no, you didn't say we should compromise quality, you simply said the translator should have never started translating this novel in the first place because it's not fast enough for your taste. I've followed several stories for years now, one of which I have been following for I believe nearly seven or so years (the manhwa, "Tower of God") without any problems; I just enjoy each chapter as they arrive. It even looks like the story will continue for another seven-plus years at least, and I'm not concerned about that in the slightest. Perhaps it's simply a different perspective in consuming the content.
OMDGEAR Eh. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're not really fans of a novel or don't care about the story, as that's simply not the case; there are some people who legitimately enjoy the content and just want it to come faster. This is rather normal and even expected in many areas—who wouldn't want to have more of what they like?—but it annoys me when people decide that some stories are translated very slow instead of some stories being translated very fast. It's like using Olympic athletes as the benchmark; everything is going to seem slow if you're comparing it to the extremes some people can accomplish.
I do think it's pretty crazy that things have progressed to this point, but it is what it is, I suppose.
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ActiasLuna I understand where you are coming from, but i would argue that 'having multiple concurrent translators and editors working on a single novel' and 'a novel being dropped and taken over by a different translator' are two completely different things. In the former case there is unity and communication between translators and editors to keep it consistent, while in the latter case the later translators have no obligation to keep the consistency.
Now i'm not necessarily saying that the translator 'will' drop the project before she can finish it, but i still have to say that this is a reality in most cases. Life happens and translators generally can't keep up with a project for such a long timespan like 8 years. Now again, there is no reason to believe this particular translator 'will' drop the novel in the future, but that doesn't change the fact that this is extremely likely to happen going by past examples.
I would also like to clarify that i'm not a reader of this particular novel. So i have no idea what's going on with the translators life. But what you said can also be another example for my statement 'life happens'... Be it a good or bad occasion 'life happens' and these events effect the translation. This is why most translators can't keep up with a project that goes on for so long. Life just happens... It is simply better to choose a project that can be finished in a shorter time, so that there will be less of a chance for unforseen circumstances to happen. Hell, some translators just get bored after translating the same novel for so long and just leave in the middle to start another novel. So it's always better to have an end goal than to not having one.
This is not about the translation being 'not fast enough for my taste' tbh. I read korean novels with 3 ch/week release rate. But why do i do that even tho i have an atleast 1ch/day rule for most chinese novels? Because the novel is only 120 chapters long. It can still be finished in 9 months. The translator quite likely won't be dropping this novel unless some really life changing event happens in the next 9 months. Most korean novels are like this. Because they are at most in the range of hundreds instead of thousands of chapters like the chinese ones.
I should also say that manga and novels are not the same when it comes to the humans ability to remember. Novels are much more detailed than manga, while manga has the advantage of being visual. What this means is that manga is quite a few folds easier for people to follow for years without forgetting things. Anything visual is much more easier to remember than just reading about it. It's just how humans memory work. Visual is always more striking and memorable.
For example, i have given about a year long break to Ze Tian Ji. At this point i can't even list the characters to you, let alone remember how they looked, nor their personality... I can't even remember how the main character looked! I have also given about 2 years break to Tower of God so far waiting for chapters to stack up. But i can still list the characters and even remember how they looked and act. This is the simple difference between a novel and manga. Now ofc i know that everyones brain doesn't have to work like mine, but this is still a reality for most humans ability to remember things.
Anyways i have rambled for too long, but i hope you can also see my point of view.
Ps. You have some good taste there with Tower of God!
lol
Kingfisher or find it on lnmtl.com maybe ??
basically the same as your method, but they already done it for you.
I guess when people started to read Chinese Nove they start getting spoiled by the translation rate, which is fast enough.
Just try read some Japanese Novel and hope someone give 1 ch/day is already a miracle and an existence closer to unicorn and dragon. The only one (that I know of) that have this kind of translation speed on JN is sousetsuka.
Most people reading JN translation already used to 2ch/ week or 1/week, and you ungrateful bastard saying 1/day is not enough is offending the translator.
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Bhagyashri Kingfisher had a very good post.
Kingfisher 1) Find the novelupdates page (eg: https://www.novelupdates.com/series/plundering-the-heavens/)
2) Copy the Chinese name from the section under "Associated Names" (eg: 掠天记 I got from the novelupdates page)
3) Insert into Google and pick a page. Navigate using Google translate.
My only additions are:
1. Bing Translator https://www.bing.com/translator occasionally provides a better reading experince.
2. I avoid systranet http://www.systranet.com/translate as it appears to provide more business and science translations. Their word choices tend to lead to a more stilted translation than what you will see in bing or google. Their main advantage is a user definable dictionary.
3. Google Chrome will normally ask you if you want to translate a page when you visit it. It is worth noting that you can also go to https://translate.google.com/ and enter a webpage to have translated there. I get different results depending on which one I use.
For PtH the worst thing when reading the mtl is MCs name (Fang Xing) is butchered (literal translations) constantly.
MCs name translated as:
Google Translate
Fang Line
Side Line
Side of the Line
Side Walk
The Line
The Party
Party Line
Square Line
Bank Line
Bing Translator
NdFeB (most used name probably about 80%)
Side Line
Bing Translator appears to be the most readable with the only annoyance is the MC's name being translated as (mostly) NdFeB (Which is a neodymium magnet)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet
GregLuck Try 'The Death Mage Who Doesn’t Want a Fourth Time' for japanese novels. It may show 'Every 1.5 Day(s) release frequency' but the chapters are 3 to 4 times longer than most novels. So it's effectively like having 2ch/day release rate compared to other novels. It's a really great novel (if you can get over the japanese foodie stuff) but what japanese novel doesn't have that right? Tho even the foodie stuff is incorporated into the story pretty good. It's not just there to pass the time it's also a story element. I will tell you now, this is definitelly not your usual isekai and it's definitelly not cliche (other than the foodie stuff) haha!
Nou hi nou, maybe im misinterpreting your statement, but isn't it better to have a translator with a low chapter count than none at all? Because I saw her comments and there should be a priority and I think 4 chapters are already good as it is. Adding a new translator to the mix might be stupid as well, therefore I think people should blame her right now, she communicated it to the community which I really like.
Again my point, why bother a translator if there is a lack of translators right now... be happy with the translation right now and don't "flame" them and maybe let them communicate with the community less
Didn't read all the comments, but wanted to give my 2 cents
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N0xiety Eh. Too many cooks spoil the broth, even if they're actively trying to work together. I'm definitely not a fan of multiple translators working on the same novel like that, and I've seen some of the problems that arise from it. I can often tell who is translating for that specific day and recognize when it switches off because people have their own methods and flavors even if they try to emulate another's.
In regards to dropping the project, that'll be something to discuss if it happens. It was a passion-project from the beginning with some personal connections to it, so while it's not an impossibility, it's not really... something to actively be concerned about, you know?
But yes, I do understand your point of view, I just don't ascribe to it likely because I'm one of the people who gets to work on it and see how things are progressing. For those who don't want to read it because it's too slow or because of the threat it won't be finished, I'll just have to ensure it's a good read so you can enjoy the finished product a few years from now instead.
Minor add, Tower of God is indeed amazing; compliments to your taste as well. Probably the story I've been following the longest in my lifetime, and I've not gone on too many hiatuses (occasionally a few weeks because of being too busy).
ActiasLuna In regards to dropping the project, that'll be something to discuss if it happens. It was a passion-project from the beginning with some personal connections to it, so while it's not an impossibility, it's not really... something to actively be concerned about, you know?
I absolutely reject any attempts by you to drop the project! Translate when you can :)
checkm8 Heh. Not the translator myself, but I'll pass on the word.
ActiasLuna yes, the older members here don't want it to get dropped, only because some '2 post accounts' flame the translator
fellow reader
N0xiety
why the anxiety. why worried. the novel as you said have 1700 chapters, gonna take 7 and a half year to finish. if you are really interested, dont wait. go and learn chinese, it gonna take a shorter time. maybe less than a year. after that you could read every chinese novel there is. go for an investment and stop depending on others to get what you want.
everyone have a choice, you could wait, you could learn to read yourself, you could read machine translation, you can even write a novel yourself.
everyone have a choice, even the translator group. they can choose a shorter novel, they can even drop the novel. maybe the translator wants a project which will give them money for a stable 7 years. arent most of us like that, looking for a stable job for a long time.
i know where you are coming from, 7 years to finish a novel is indeed long, but do you must wait that long? do you even have a need to read the novel for that long? im guessing you dont have an obligation to do so. hell im not even sure whether i will be alive tomorrow, anything can happen. why frustrate yourself, just leave it and do whatever makes you feel fulfilled and happy. be happy that we even get chapters everyweek.
i used to stack a novel for a year and when i come back to it, it have 100+ chapter. i was happy to read that much, around 10 a month maybe 2-3 chaps a week. why complain, i was even glad it didnt get dropped or the author turns mad like a certain snail.
just be glad that they continues to write and translate.
I am always confused by so much talk, I just read this whole thread skipping some of the longish posts cause like...there was 35 why the hell. But as I have said before.
I think these novels should be standardized. Translators should have to clock in and out, you have night workers and day workers. This is especially true for long novels. I don't know the specifics of translating maybe it is an art form, but for some reason I just see it as code especially since a machine can do it and people can read it still. They take the novel put it through the machine and start editing, I don't understand why that takes so long, but I guess if all the words translated are wrong it might take a long time. Even so if you have people working 24 hours, not the same person, but people then you can get stuff done much faster.
Make it more...business like, the quota is to have 1 chapter translated by translator in a day, not edited just translated. Editors have a quota to edit 2 chapters a day, doesn't need to be from the same novel just needs to get done. If the operations were maximized I don't think there would be a problem that every novel in qidian has at least 7 chapters a week with addition of new translators and editors it makes it even more possible to do more. I would also appreciate the translators/editors a lot more if they can do more than the quota because that means they actually care and aren't just doing it for a buck. Maybe the numbers are unrealistic but the truth is the difference in novels that had/have 23 chapters a week and those that have 4 chapters in terms of quality never seem any different to me they still have random typos and errors, even chapters that have been released for so long, like MONTHS have errors so like they gets no sympathy from me about the quality difference compared to chapter release,
If you want actual "clock in" and "clock out", that would require a hourly wage OR a salary, neither of which--I think--Webnovel would be willing to do at the moment.
1) different people have different speeds in TL/Ed, especially non-professional ones like me. You have some that may take an average of 4 hours per chapter, while others may require only 10 minutes a chapter max. What then? Someone's pumping out 6-20 chapters every hour, while someone else is getting out a quarter of a chapter in the same amount of time. Should they get the same hourly wage?
2) The pay is in US dollars. It has different worth depending on where in the world you are. Would you be willing to work on editing (not just proofreading, but line editing and copy editing) for $5 per chapter? Or how about translating? What if it takes you 1.5 hrs per chapter, minimum? Will you be able to survive clocking in 8 hours a day on this wage?
The pay for most, if not all translators and editors, is on a per-chapter basis. They do 8 chapters this week? Then they get 8 x (whatever they're contracted with).
I hope this gives you some insight
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Nou It does give me some insight....I still think regardless you can have a clock in and out time. No one is saying 1 person needs to work and get paid on an hourly basis but they need to commit to a timeframe of work so that you can have multiple work on the same project. Whether is be 4 hours in the morning then 2 hours at night, but its noted so another person can work the time in-between get me?
You set your own work time, but it is a specific time! my point was only this since it makes it easier for the next person to pick up where you may have left off.
I think maybe because you are translating it may make more sense to change the pay rate to something more like per word.... Don't some journalists and such get paid by the word? Also different novels have different chapter lengths if you get paid the same for a chapter that is short and chapter that is long is a little unbalanced. Too slow to make a living off translating? Try running a hotdog stand on the side until you get better at the job you really want(assuming its translating). I actually wouldn't mind getting $5 per chapter when editing, if I were an editor because as a reader half the time I'm doing the job anyway! At least then I might get paid, instead of ignoring it or maybe putting in a comment or thread for the mistakes an editor should have caught. That's not to say I would make editing my main job, hell no! Not that I mind reading but, what if I end up with a book I hate? Could you imagine, we are not compatible for the long term.
The info was useful, but I still don't see the issue other than maybe with staff, if qidian wants to get larger it should start to expand no? It cannot have this small operation like it is now, Translators and editors should be held in a higher regard and to do that there needs to be a better structure than what it currently is cause its disappointing at times to find that novels have so many different release rates from 23ch per week to 4ch per week. The only excuse being....what? Not many people like the novel? Then let's make that a training novel to expand your staff.
To be clear I am not saying the system currently sucks, but its not optimal for large scale in my opinion, the library qidian has is getting larger and the flaws you have now will become bigger as you go. Everyone around here seems to think there is no way it can change or no way it can be better. I just think it's better to acknowledge something is flawed and find a way to fix it instead of saying "now way". Even my idea if it is not good find a better one but fix the flaw.