That's simply not true...
If you meant by competitor is WW, then they don't have the translation rights for this novel. They effective sold it to WN without the translator's permission. I'm not gonna elaborate more on this because of the legalities involved, but I just wanted to point out that it's not true that WN pirated this novel.
lozlo I was actually talking about the Chinese version that's being sold as paperbacks in retail, not on Amazon. As far as I know, Tian Cu Tu Dou's novels have not been translated into English and sold on Amazon, sorry for not being clear enough. But they are being sold as Chinese paperbacks in Kinokuniya, I actually saw them.
Also, what Cantiara said. Not sure if you can laugh about this when you don't even know the truth of the matter.
lozlo Don't like that she hit a little too close to the truth eh? Your response makes it obvious that you know that she has a point. You even went to the trouble of making ridiculous examples about how you aren't forcing them to read. Lie to yourself if you want, but you're going to have to try harder if you want to lie to me.
This is the typical example of someone making an assumption, using it to prove his own point, and then use said point to prove that assumption was right in the first place. Thats a rather common logicial missconception used by people unable to participate in mature discussion, yet you can't even reach that level, without even a slightest attempt to prove your initial assumption, which I can tell you - is wrong.
It just irks me how entilted some people are, but just this fact alone makes them too worthless as discussion partners to warrant my serious response.
lozlo Lie to yourself if you want, but you're going to have to try harder if you want to lie to me
Sorry kiddo, I don't give any shts about you and your delusions. Your words only show how fragile your ego is.
lozlo More than a few people have posted facts with the numbers and stats to back it up, showing how ridiculous the prices are here.
Actually, there were like three enormous discussions, where people actually were respectfull and factual enough to get me to explore the topic in depth. In the end, it all got summed up by some other posts that used to be promoted at the top of the site, but I can't even be bothered to find what was the name of the discussion. I like to believe that I already made a name for myself on the forums with how active I used to be, so you can just ask around.
But there is one sentence that sums it up perfectly, so I will imperfectly quote it:
"Amazon and Webnovel are two diffrent things. On amazon, you pay for the finished product, while on Webnovel you are supporting author in order to get him to write."
While you could argue for a LONG time about whether its worth it or not to support people on webnovel, in the end, no matter what you say, it doesn't matter. If people keep paying, it means they believe the price to be fair. If they stop paying, WN will be forced to change their aproach, and so far, everyone is happy outside of leeches like you.
lozlo get one thing straight, the exploitation you feel is from Qidian, not the readers.
Thats actually pretty wrong. To exploit someone, means to unfairly takes advantage of him. Qidian proposed me a contract, and gave me way more than enough time for me to go through, and even delegated a person to clarify all the doubts that I could possibly have. The reality of publishing is harh, which most of the people complaining about contract simply doesn't realise. But since I was okay with the contract, I signed it. This is called a fair deal.
On the other side, its free readers that demands more chapters, lesser prices and all and going to pirate sites (for your information, yesterday someone showed me that my story is fcking top1 in recommended on a pirate app, I even downloaded it to check it out, and surprise surprise, its true!)
So no, it's pirates who exploit me, by stealing my work and letting free readers read it for free.
All in all, you are wrong in everything, every. single. sentence. you wrote, yet you act like you have any basis to prove being right. You are quite funny, I will give you that.
Seriously people, there's no one correct way to defend either side of the story. Platforms will differ in how their business model is. The content of the stories and ideas greatly influence the demand and how well people accept it with all of its flaws.
For example, I often make hundreds of dollars on a cheap draft of an idea which may or may not work and needs a professional editor to fix it up. And I get it edited for free through being sponsored by a company. You may think that is some kind of crazy fantasy, but it happens. These, my friends, are called patents.
No one argument will fit the mold. The businesses will do whatever they can as long as money is there. Are they giving me the shaft by giving me only hundreds for an idea that could make millions? Maybe. Could the patent end up being a dud? Possible too. That's how the world works.
Stop comparing normal writers to the standard professional. It's just invalid. Most often, professionals have worked years and written millions of words before earning any money. Most self-published novels lose money, this is also a fact. This is akin to compairing a teenager who started playing basketball to a professonal in the NBA. Can they get to that point, sure, but their not their... So when you say professonal, you remove countless writers from the topic, which is unfair to them and a untruthfull comparison.
When did I say writers should not earn money?
"Also, to all you writers stinking of entitlement, it's stupid to assume or hope you will make money when you likely have not proofread/edited/ checked for plotholes or even obtained a beta reader. Hell all you have done, is likely publisher your first or second draft of an unfinished novel."
This quote does not say that. It says, authors who have not put in the work, should not think they will get results, thinking that they will, is entiltlement.
The problem is you're confusing my words with other things others have posted here, for example this WN, should be free idea or even daily chapters, as I have never said anything on this topic.- Well, I might have long ago, but never to this stance I am sorta being forced to defend.
But, let me be clear, even though it was not said directly, my posts are meant for authors who earned/wish to earn money. A free service provides little entitlement to the user. - Stuff like known delays, or notice of a dropped novel, as it requires little effort to inform the end user.
Also to readers who priate novels like the ones on webnovel, please look up lit-rpg on amazon often you can read them with KU, and most of these have some type of editing, unlike most WN's.
Acutelittletrap If you did not mean that writers should not earn money, then I apologize. For some reason you came across as saying, "writers should not make money at all if they did not proofread/edited/checked for plot holes or published their first or second draft of an unfinished novel."
Obviously, if you only meant that they should not get results if they don't put in the work, then I agree. But that wasn't very clear because you were the one who brought up the comparisons between professional and amateur writers in the first place, which made it look like you are implying that amateur writers should not expect to earn any income at all until they become professional.
Also, when you talk about professional basketballers or NBA, and comparing them to a teenager who started playing basketball...well, we have something called sports scholarships. If you perform well in school and work hard in training (just like how you get popular with your daily updates, getting lots of votes and readers online on Webnovel), the school grants you scholarships. Companies sponsor your training. You receive a stipend (and are bonded to the company, which is basically the same as a contract). You still participate in regional school tournaments. So yes, even if you are a teenager who plays basketball at the "amateur" level, you can expect to get some income. That is not being entitled. The sponsors chose to invest in you because they see a bright future. Similarly, Webnovel chooses to give contracts to writers they deem promising because they update regularly and have managed to successfully built up a fanbase, which proves that they are doing something right in their writing.
So I don't even know what exactly is the point you're trying to make, or who you are calling entitled. The contracted writers? Or writers who don't have a contract but demand that they be given one and that they deserve to be paid even though they haven't built up the necessary fanbase to prove that they can succeed in writing? If it's the latter, then your point is redundant, because their stories are free, do not require free pass to read, which is what the thread is about. And I have not seen any non-contracted writers coming on here and demanding a contract, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Webnovel being "exploitative" as LilyK claimed (and which Cantiara responded to, and you responded to her).
If you're talking about, college-level sports, well I can understand the thought, but I don't agree it's a valid comparison, in fact, I suspect college-level players are vastly underpaid. Often they give up money, to have a chance at the NFL/NBA, basketball players are currently starting to play oversea's to earn money as well. There has been a good amount of discussion on the topic, but many different viewpoints which seem interesting conflict with each other.
Overall, whichever stance you have on it, It's just too complex to compare to a WN contract, in my viewpoint. I don't agree that WN has too much of a standard when it comes to giving contracts, which is why most of them don't earn much money past the minimum, and I don't think it's only because of pirating, though it is a huge factor on web novel.
I never brought up the charging system or talked about, because I really don't understand it, but any and all free content in whatever amounts is a blessing for the end-user. (I did recommend the subscription system, long ago.) I'm talking about authors who think they earned money simply by writing when that's not the truth of the matter. Their many books, that have been written and have not earned a dime because the work has not been marketed, or simply is not up to standard, or its intent is not for a mass readership.
As far as sample size, I think WN, is very liberal though they are cutting back on that ideal.
Tomoyuki
I was around when this happened. I'm more or less as aware as you unless you have some secret connections. Even then, I've seen some of the lies Qidian told over the years, so I would doubt a source from them. I read the official statement from Ren regarding the matter back around when the book went on Amazon. So, I'm not wrong. But it's his word against theirs unless they both openly display the contract. I'll take his word since I know Qidian/Webnovel have a history or dishonesty. With that aside, Coiling Dragon is not the only novel Qidian is pirating here. I've seen more than a couple authors over the years trying to get their novels taken down from here and Qidian ignored them. Prime example. https://www.webnovel.com/book/15524618305756805/The-Forgotten-Conqueror.
The author of this novel requested this be pulled down a while back, but it's still there. If memory serves, he refused to post it on here because he won't accept their terms. It was one of my favorite novels on Royalroad. Unfortunately, his releases are sporadic, but I think it's worth the wait.
As a side note. Of the other two stories shared by that same author, one of them is an mtl of a Japanese novel. A quick search gave me nothing on the third one though.
Tomoyuki Ah I see. I was referring to releasing them in English. When I spoke of the cost for releasing physical versions of Chinese novels, I was referring to the added cost of translating and editing them. Especially since the price of the original Chinese version in paperback appears to be $15...
MotivatedSloth I never expected a serious response from you. That would require logic and knowledge about the subject rather than your constant pissy rants that have almost no substance and are spread over the forum whining about how everyone who doesn't agree with you is a selfish entitled leech.
You should chant the line about being delusional and having a fragile ego back to yourself, kiddo.
There have been far more than 3 over the years, and they all lead to the same point. The price for the chapters is ridiculous. The standard argument against this statement has always been "But the authors and Webnovel need to make money!"
But at the end of the day, you're right about one thing. In the Original novels, it comes down to supporting the author. And if people are willing to pay, then the price is fair to them. However, with so many authors commenting on how they aren't making anything and the fact that Webnovel continually changes the system speaks for itself. Webnovel is either not making enough, or they are too greedy and just constantly looking for more ways to squeeze every single penny out of the few people who do pay. Personally, I lean towards the first option, but the second one is certainly possible. They are quite greedy.
The translated novels are a completely different story though.
First off, I said IF you feel exploited. And if you feel exploited, then I still stand by what I said. It's not the readers who are exploiting you. If someone is here complaining, that means they are following the rules, they just don't like them. People who are reading your stuff for free don't need to come here and complain about it.
Second.Pirates huh, like Webnovel? Who have many people's stolen work posted here. You support this site even though they are pirating, yet you want to complain about other sites that pirate. But I'm the one that's completely wrong. Interesting concept you have there.
lozlo I honestly don't know the truth, just what I was told, so I will not argue with you on the whole Wuxiaworld thing because I really don't have the right or knowledge to comment on the matter (I trust Cantiara, though).
Yeah, each individual volume of coiling Dragon is pretty expensive, and that's before you factor in translation or whatever. The Chinese copy itself is expensive, and compared to it, it seems that each individual Webnovel is cheaper? For $15, you can buy 120 chapters, which is equal to 3-4 volumes if we assume that each volume of Coiling Dragon has 30-40 chapters on average. I guess?
Also, from who I know, writers have no complaints about their earnings. No one is complaining that they earn too little. From the conversations I've seen, they are upset with the readers coming onto the forums and complaining that they want more free stuff, and they are worried this would reduce their earnings, that's all. Webnovel pays a fair amount, and no one is complaining about their income being too little.
sweetbunn I find it hard too due to the same reason
sweetbunn I find it hard too due to the same reason
As I said, I'm not going to elaborate further because of the legalities involved and it's really not my place to do so. I understand you won't just take my word for it without me providing any corroborations to back my claim. So, it's fine. But things are really not as black and white as you make it seems.
Seriously, there is no point in replying to you anymore, and it will be the last response from me.
You do not bring any valid points. Not even a single one in neither of your responses to me (since I can't be bothered to read any other of your swea,,, writing). The fact that I'm insanelly pissed off at something IRL right now doesn't help in making me benevolent enought to waste my time on someone as disrespectfull and childish as you by writing the full calculations and real arguments I used to make while talking with others.
The reason why Webnovel changes the system - look at the stocks. In their entire history, they had like 2-3 months when they operated at profit, that was actually quite marginal to the amount they are losing during the rest of their existance as the company. It's obvoius they are going to look for other ways to improve their income, because if they won't do so, their financial backers will stop funding them, and you will be left with a middle finger shoved in your face instead of so many novels that they are bringing to your life.
And webnovel having pirated novels? Point me to one. Compared to other sites, they are at least taking them down if some fcker steals it and upload as his own. And look at the bright side - no one will every make ANY moeny out of pirated novels in here, because you need a contract to do so.
And if you are refering to the korean novels, then surprise surprise, THEY WERE FCKING BOUGHT. The license to translate them. Thats why they shut down free translations, because they were doing something ltierally illegal (Yes, I'm looking at you, solo leveling)
So please, get off your high horse and shove your opinions back to your arse, as this was their place of orgin and the only place they could gain any sort of recognition.
And no, I'm not gonna bother to care about grammar. YOu aint worthy
MotivatedSloth webnovel having pirated novels? Point me to one
lozlo Prime example. https://www.webnovel.com/book/15524618305756805/The-Forgotten-Conqueror.
The author of this novel requested this be pulled down a while back, but it's still there. If memory serves, he refused to post it on here because he won't accept their terms. It was one of my favorite novels on Royalroad. Unfortunately, his releases are sporadic, but I think it's worth the wait.
Has the original author (copyright holder) sent a DMCA notice to dmca@webnovel.com as well as service@webnovel.com?
If he/she hasn't then he/she should do it. They won't take the novel down without any DMCA notice. That's just how the industry works.
His/her DMCA notice should include the following:
- A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the work’s owner.
- Identification of the original work(s) that you’re claiming has been infringed upon.
- Identification of the work you’re claiming has infringed upon yours.
- Information on how the hosting provider can contact you, including phone number, address, or email.
- A statement that you do not believe the content is authorized by the copyright owner.
- A statement that the information is accurate to your knowledge under penalty of perjury.
https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/how-to-submit-dmca-takedown-notice/
Tomoyuki I'm not really trying to argue about it. I've been around and read the statements from both groups when they started. Ren made a post about it way back then, stating they had spoken to them and sent legal documentation on it. But they refused to take it down, just like every other group out there pirating popular novels. And, it's not the only one. I could write a whole paragraph on their dishonest tactics. (I actually did write one... or two... just now, and then deleted them.)
Yeah, the translated PDF version is on Amazon for like $3 a shot though. 30 for the whole series if I understand it correctly. That price would probably increase drastically for a paperback copy. And Coiling Dragon was one of the more acceptable novels. Most of the novels here shouldn't be put into print. Tian Cu Tu Dou is a prime example. I've read enough of his work over the years, but I couldn't stand to read them through to the end. Skipped large portions of some, just to get to the end, and didn't even finish others. And, that was when they were free. But that's me personally. A lot of people loved the novels, so it's anyone's guess unless it's actually released.
Ah well. I guess there were some misunderstandings across the board. I actually don't know what Qidian pays here. It's been a while, and the few authors I've spoken to in the past weren't thrilled about it, but they also weren't popular authors. Maybe things have changed, maybe you're a popular author, maybe it's way past time for me to make some breakfast. Definitely way past time for me to eat some breakfast...
Cantiara When it comes to the law, few things are ever black and white, and a lot of it isn't logical either. But, I doubt they have a contract granting them rights to his translation. So, as you said, until given some kind of actual proof, I don't see how it isn't black and white. I'm pretty sure I've seen the post in the past where Qidian(Or one of their spokesmen) claimed that having the rights to the original granted them the right to use the legally recognized official translation. If you think that makes logical sense anywhere except in a court, where rhetoric is king, then there's nothing I can say that would get through to you. It seems pretty black and white to me.
Cantiara If he/she hasn't then he/she should do it. They won't take the novel down without any DMCA notice. That's just how the industry works.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/1439/forgotten-conqueror/chapter/224627/please-read
original author put a link of the novel and was contacted by wn content team after he gave proof its been deleted going to this https://www.webnovel.com/book/10835104505183005/Forgotten-Conqueror link leads to a 404 error
but another plagiariser popped up i posted a comment in his website regarding this hope he will see it
As I said, it's fine if you think that way. I'm not going to argue with you about this issue because it's really not my place to do so. But there's no need to convince me otherwise either because I know what I know, and seeing that the knowledge that you have on this issue is solely based on the official statements from both sides, then all I can say is, I know that I know about this issue more than you.
The reason for my initial response to your post is my own inability to put up with the misconception that some (if not most) people seem to have when it comes to this novel. But I was careless. Mea Culpa. I should never have done that knowing it is not my place to say anything regarding this matter, resulting in my inability to provide evidence to support my statement, rendering this discussion totally pointless.
So, let's just end it here. My apologies, but please don't waste your time and energy to reply to this post because when it comes to this issue, you won't get any response from me anymore.
