MaxwellKHA That makes sense, as an author they'd have a confirmation bias and would not be able or willing to see both sides.
Constructive criticism good or bad
FunnyBuns As an author myself ,I delete reviews, why? Because I'm concerned about what my book will become. Look, maybe one reader seems to be a little number, but trust me. When you remove that book from the library, we know that.
Reviews is one of the tools that we use to gain readers. It's not a surprise if author deletes a one star review, well, I will do the same thing too.
Tbh, I understand your feelings when you're writing a 1000 words review only it to be deleted by the author. Why? I feel the same too because I used to doing so. It's not justified, but I understand why they do that.
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FunnyBuns So why aren't you looking at it from the perspective of an author and understanding that it is harassment?
I'm a reader. I have read a lot of stories on this site. If people delete my review, what do I do? I drop the story. There is no point in continuing reading the story. What do I achieve from reposting my review, other than me harassing the author? Nothing. Why should I care? I said my piece. I know the author has read my review. If he/she doesn't accept my criticisms, that's his/her problem. What right do I have to force my opinion or criticisms on him/her? If he/she doesn't want to listen, that's his/her prerogative. I drop the story, move on and read some other story I like more, or support some other author. Why would I waste my time harassing this author who doesn't want to listen to me? What exactly do I achieve by reposting the review/comment over and over again other than irritating the s out of him/her?
You laugh at me for not knowing terms, yet you're the same guy who misinterpreted the First Amendment and freedom of speech clause, and stubbornly insists on misinterpreting other people's posts by pretending that LostInFictions implied something that she did not. And then you call other people stubborn even though I explained to you what she meant and that you read it all wrong. I wonder who's the kid?
Tomoyuki He's not an author.
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MaxwellKHA I am not an author either.
He did write a book called Small Stories or something, though. Just to get a badge.
Tomoyuki Yes you are. And a contracted one too. You're better than the other author in here in terms of status.
FunnyBuns I write stories of terrible quality. That does not give me the right to call myself an author. Just look at the 2.9 rating for my story.
Most readers have advised me to quit writing, and they tell me I should never be an author, that I should give up and stop polluting the site with my rubbish. Must be great to have all that freedom of speech, eh?
Tomoyuki Well, better tell that 500 fans of yours that is paying for your story the same thing.
MaxwellKHA But I don't have 500 fans paying for my story? Where did you get that from?
Tomoyuki You have Tomo, You have.
Tomoyuki This is proof you have a confirmation bias as you have completely ignored like half the stuff I wrote by saying I haven't looked at it from the author's perspective. If you've looked up what confirmation bias is by now(I hope you have because if you haven't then you are incompetent on top of having a confirmation bias), you'd realize that by ignoring half of what I said to confirm your own personal beliefs as true. I've constantly said both parties are in the wrong, meaning I'm defending the author as the reader could have stopped, but unlike you, I'm also seeing it from a reader's perspective.
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FunnyBuns I could throw back the same thing to you. I said I don't agree with what the writer does either. I said I think it's dishonest. I even sympathized with the guy reposting his review. But I said that does not justify harassment. And what exactly do you think are my personal beliefs? That harassment is harassment?
You have completely ignored not just what I said, but also what Kazesenken and LostInFiction said. And you accuse other people of having confirmation bias or incompetent. How rich.
MaxwellKHA Interesting. But I don't even earn anything, my income has been less than $10 a month, not counting MGS.
Not that I care, I tell everyone to use Fast Passes for my story anyway.
So, why does it matter if I'm an author? If anything, I'm pretty new at writing. I honestly don't care about deleting comments, and have never deleted any of my reviews. Why? Because I honestly don't care.
What have I posted here? Simply, a deconstruction of the 'logic' that has been proposed. It is up to others to decide if the points you make are valid or not. All I can say is that you are attempting to police a system that you are unhappy with, saying that WN and everyone should align to your views. And when they don't, you get triggered.
Honestly, Tomoyuki and GrandElderO, stop trying to convince each other as neither one of you are starting to make sense anymore. You are making mountains out of molehills.
It's not us that decides what happens but the community.
Tomoyuki I don't know how fast passes work, but 3000 contribution is certainly from a legit user. Maybe it doesn't directly translate to your income, but hey, someone is paying for your story.
MaxwellKHA Oh, well...I will be grateful to whoever that is.
kazesenken Yeah you have a point, why are people trying to police a system by saying shit like it is wrong to repost or someone doesn't have the right to do it. I'm just saying common sense and common knowledge stuff while so many people are here trying to tell me that someone doesn't have a right they obviously have.
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FunnyBuns No one is talking about rights.
Again. LostInFictions is appealing for empathy. She is not saying, "you have no right to repost if an author has deleted your review!" She is saying, "please be understanding, if the author deleted your review, he/she probably has a reason. Maybe it's depression, maybe it's his/her mood. Please be kind and compassionate, and leave it at that."
Nothing to do with silencing. Certainly nothing to do with rights.
Me, I'm just pointing out that you achieve nothing by reposting other than making the author annoyed, and if you keep spamming no matter how many times he/she deleted, it basically becomes harassment. In fact, why waste your time on reposting your review if you know the author is going to delete it? He/she has already read your review, what more do you want? What are you trying to achieve, other than making everyone unhappy? If I were you (and trust me, I have read a lot), I would just move on. I would drop the story (if I haven't already), and look for something else to read. Why would I waste my time with this guy/girl? No matter how upset I am, that doesn't justify harassing him/her. Also, true story. There are authors who reported readers for harassment (basically spamming the same comment over and over again) and got them banned. So Webnovel does take a clear stance on what they think constitutes as harassment.
Nobody is talking about how nobody has the "right" to repost. Everyone here is pointing out the ethics of writing reviews and letting it go when it's clear there is no good that comes out of harassing or spamming the same review over and over again just because the author deletes it.
And you call other people "biased," "childish" or "incompetent." Right.
kazesenken Dude, you seem to be the person that observed this post. Can you tell me what's going on in a nutshell please?
I can't figure out what's going on here since the emotion on this post is overwhelming.
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MaxwellKHA Apparently LostInFictions appealed for empathy and suggests that readers should leave it at that if they get their review deleted because there are many reasons why authors chose to delete the review, and no good is going to come out of reposting.
GrandElder0 comes in, criticizes her for advocating the silencing of readers, and insists that readers have the right to repost (no one ever said otherwise and LostInFictions certainly never implied that).
Everyone else is explaining why that perspective is problematic because reposting a review over and over again every time it gets deleted is tantamount to harassment. GrandElder0 disagrees, evidently.
Back and forth. That's about it, essentially.
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The summary to all of this is: Does WN even give a ****?
Authors are free to delete whatever they feel like.
Readers are free to get mad if their review gets deleted, and repost.
Yes, it's sad that the effort of the reader in reading and critiquing goes poof at the whim of the author.
Webnovel's system fully allows this.
The question is: when is this back and forth too much?
Is it the author's right to keep their novel looking however they want? Hey, they could delete the whole thing if they really wanted to.
Is it the reader's right for his opinion to be seen by all? Regardless of how the content is perceived by the author?
There can be no gray area in deciding this. However, one person's honest thoughts could easily be perceived as another's trolling. It is subjective, so that's what makes it hard to fully go one way or the other.
At what point does pushing a person's thoughts on another become harassment? It doesn't matter what the review contents are anymore. What matters for those who judge is intent.
What do you intend to do by continuing to repost the review? Who's freedom is being imposed on? Is any party damaged by having the review not being there?
These are the things that you must ask yourself. These are the things the community decides. And maybe (fat chance, lol) if enough people think one way, then WN will change it.
Honestly, just a bunch of misinterpretations (on both sides) that have snowballed into a heated argument. But more or less what Tomoyuki said. Frankly, the more the argument went on, the less it all started making sense to me. I was away from a large part of it and didn't feel like reading it all.
Juushirou since when calling someone sexism, because he made a note about the world building, was constrictive criticism.
Accusing someone for being sexism is nothing more than personal attack. That would make me feel insulted instead giving me insights about improving my writing.
listen, feel free to insult the story, feel free to spit on the story; but I ain't allowing kids online to insult me.
as for your review, (that didn't review the story at all, but it attacked the author) I thanked you when you made it, despite you making up things such as me deleting paragraph comments, - I bet you deleted that comment of yours because you handle my reply after calling me sexism- and I don't like sexism either.
But when I read your last sentence saying that you will stop reading the story if I delete the review (that don't review the story at all), I decided to delete it.
though I would advice you to learn what is Constructive Criticism, I would have to apologize, since you may be a special person who takes things very far, and I don't like bullying.
EroJaki What happened? You're the main reason on why this thread started. I suggest that you explain what is going on.
MaxwellKHA
One day, I was drinking a hot vodka. I opened the app, and saw a paragraph comment, calling me sexism. Laughing, I called him feminist that got triggered in another world.
Then, the dude, made a review, not related to my writing, saying, I deleted his paragraph comment. (My Pc is still in college though, besides, since when can we delete comments. I can seriously give you a chapter where someone called me slu-t 90 times over a girl , and no comment is deleted. Obviously, he deleted it himslef.)
I laughed at his review as he didn't make any thing constructive, and said thank you and told him some words, telling him not to take it to the heart.
I was about to throw my phone away, but then I saw his note saying: I will stop reading if he deleted my review.
I laughed, thinking that this guy is cute, to take things so far. I took another sip of my vodca, while thinking, would he get emotionally aroused.
I opened the navigator and put Desktop mode, and I deleted it.
Now, here am I, drinking whiskey, laughing again .
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EroJaki That Juushirous Guy? What did he write?
MaxwellKHA@MaxwellKHA#396063I am thinking of dropping this story since the author can't take any constructive criticism even though i like the story. The author will even delete paragraph comments if he doesn't like what you said. Then will pm you a response that is full of anger and spite. I suggest anyone the wants to read this refrain from commenting. I will probably continue reading this but if this review gets deleted its dropped.
First, I can't delete paragraph comment.
I don't delete comments, as I have someone called me slu* in 50 comment.
Second, the review has nothing to do with story, neither it follow the guidelines provided by WN.
How can it be constructive, other than trying to fame author with false info, like this forum post.
Third. I thanked him, since I treat my little nephew this way when he gets upset.
Forth.
Only His last sentence made me delete the review. I found it funny. What would I win or lose in case he read or not.
Now, he is angry that he want report me and fame me across the platform.
If he has something against me, I'll give him my home adress, and If he came, I'll buy him ice-cream, so he may cool down.
Though, I wonder if he prefer chocolate or vanilla.
EroJaki Cool. You are funny.
Juushirou You started this thread, igniting a debate between people because of your own opinion? Dude, You're not the victim here. You're the perpetrator.
Maybe people won’t like this opinion, but as far as criticism goes, it has no place in a review. Reviews are for people to look and see what others think of the story. They aren’t meant to be direct communications to the author. While you give ratings to things like grammar, character development, world development, etc. the point is to rate the overall work as compared to other things you’ve read. Would you recommend the story? That’s what a reader looks for.
If you are addressing the author, giving specific feedback on how you think they can improve the work, that’s not a review. So what’s the big deal if the author reads it, applies what they will, and deletes the “review” / criticism?
tigre900 How review works in here and in other sites works differently.
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Constructive criticism is a wonderful thing, but sometimes authors can take that well-meaning act as an attack on their work. Giving a good review is an art of its own, to be perfectly honest.
While I am an advocate of gently pointing out what you determined could use some work and polishing, you should also make sure to point out what you liked from the work and perceived to be enjoyable. I cannot stress this part enough because if all you do is write about what you disliked, your review is going to appear very hostile to an amateur author (which is the predominant case here) who has not yet developed his or her thick skin to criticism.
A good review should obviously never have any form of insults towards the author and the work, as that will obviously put you in the immediate bad side of the author and will, most likely, give the author all the incentive in the world to delete your review. There's nothing constructive about posting garbage, after all.
All in all, you should strive to write a polite review and include both the positives and negatives you discovered about the work (you're reviewing the novel as a whole and not what you just found terrible). A common courtesy that is optional, would be to wish the author the best in improving their writing abilities and the success of the novel. Ending your review on a positive note is a surefire way to communicate your goodwill and sincerity as a reader, be it as a passing lurker or a dedicated fan.
Many authors rarely get praise at all for the efforts or even thanks for the work they've written. Heck, some don't even get comments in their chapters, if at all. You'd be surprised what a simple, "Thanks for the novel" can do to make an author happy. (Source: Me)
