Nah, you're not an M. Most people prefer reading stuff that really immerses them in the book and descriptions can really help with that.

I think the issue of "show, not tell" in webnovels is especially glaring because authors keep telling us how talented and powerful "arrogant young master X" or "Elder Y" or "Old Master Z" is, gives us tons of descriptions of what their cultivation realm or level is, a dossier of their achievements, victories, skills, techniques (which they claim are difficult to learn), only to have the protagonist beat them up in less than ten seconds or curbstomp them instantly.

If these young masters are really talented, show us. Not tell us how much of a genius they are, only to have the protagonist instant-kill them in a single paragraph because...how do you expect the readers to believe they are a genius then?

Or the descriptions of how Jade Beauty X or Princess Y have this divine physique or whatever talent or is an unprecedented genius who every man wants to marry, only for them to always get beaten up and need the male protagonist to rescue them (an excuse for them to fall in love with him). So much for being a talented genius.

These are the biggest problems in webnovels, which is why people generally bring up "show, not tell."

I mean, the authors really love showing how beautiful all the heroines are. Jade Beauty X being the most beautiful girl in so-and-so Kingdom, plus paragraphs of her long, silky hair, snow-white skin, jade eyes, gorgeous curves (and something about their hips or buttocks or breasts)...and do you think readers care about that? No. After showing us the hundredth jade beauty heroine in a 1,000-chapter long story, people get sick of the authors showing off their heroines.

So the real issue of show, not tell is the constant projection of authors' intentions, only for them to contradict what they told us later. It's not about being more descriptive. It's about being consistent and immersive, and to have the descriptions actually matter to the story.

    Tomoyuki
    I call it a cheap win. The author is trying to set up a big stake to get us to root for the mc without actually putting in any work to earn it.

    Saying the young master is the best at this and that, then having the mc beat them, is much easier to do than actually showing the young master being good at things.

    They won't do that because then they actually have to think of an plot for the story, and these kind of books generally don't have any plot.

    If they build up the young master well enough to actually be a threat, you'll start to realise the main character isn't all that great, because they're actually a self insert for the reader and have zero personality aside from being really horny

    As for the jade beauties, its because the author can't write women aside from their physical descriptions (because horny) and paper thin personality because (did I mention horny?)

    Its just lazy writing in general 🤭

        EternalNightLotus Exactly. Totally agree. It's lazy writing in general. Showing takes a lot more work than telling...but it's not as if the authors can't put in the work - they are motivated only by their horniness. Heh.

        I think people are fed up with lazy writing more than they want the author to show, not tell.

          shadowdrake27 Thank you. I'm still a beginner author, so balancing isn't my forte...I'll guess I'll just practice more...Thanks for the advice, helps a lot.

            Misguided_Rooster Haha, that's true. I have a love and hate relationship with it. The author sometimes uses tell too much(Probably bc of the deadline and fast update, like 2 chapters a day...There's probably no time for edit from show to tell.)

              Tomoyuki Hello, your advice isn't wrong, but I think there's a misunderstanding here. There are actually types of show, don't tell. Type of tells: Emotional Tells, Motivational Tells, Stage Directional Tell, Passive Tell, Descriptive Tell...What you mentioned is actually infodump(which is another tell)

              And the aforementioned example I mentioned is emotional tell...You can learn more of show, don't tell by reading — Understanding Show, Don't Tell: And Really Getting It — By Janice Hardy...Hope this helps.

                  Tomoyuki Omg, I agree with you. I'm sick and tired of this paragraph 🤣

                      Cowshed Whoops, sorry. Yeah, you're probably right. I'm thinking of another thing.

                      I don't just mean info dumps (?), but also throwaway descriptions that don't matter to the story. Like in my example, why does it matter to the story if the protagonist is smart? Telling the readers that your character has x personality or y quality is pointless unless those personalities or qualities matter to the plot. Why does it matter if the heroine is beautiful or if the hero is smart? Does the plot require the hero to outthink his enemy, for example? If that's the case, then you're better served writing a scene where the hero outwits his opponent rather than simply telling the audience he is smart. Or CEO stories - if the heroine is beautiful, why does her ex-fiance/ex-boyfriend always cheats on her and dumps her for her stepsister/best friend, why is the bloody CEO so cold and absusive toward her - and if she's so beautiful, can't she find a better guy (pretty sure she should be able to attract a lot more men than just a cold and abusive CEO) to help her with her revenge? I mean, the CEO evidently doesn't care if she's beautiful anyway, so why does it matter?

                      Edit: I found out why it matters...because the female lead is always an actress/model/high profile fashion designer. Doesn't explain why they always get cheated on and dumped by their first boyfriends/ex-fiances, though. Or why the CEOs always choose to marry actresses/models/designers when they always claim that they don't care about beauty and appearances.

                      The problem with many webnovel authors is that they say one thing i.e. the hero is intelligent, and then have him do stupid stuff like pick fights with hoodlums or act recklessly (charge into danger head-on). Or they say he's handsome and give a long description about his blond hair and blue eyes and clean features (why does this matter to the story?) but the story is about fighting monsters (how come he has no scars then? And why should we care if he's handsome, it's not as if it helps him fight better). The same thing with jade skin beauties, but they live in a world where people fight to kill each other everyday and the strong eat the weak, and somehow none of the heroines have any scars. Oh, and the best one: The "brave" female lead who the author claims is not easily bullied, but somehow throughout the story she lets the CEO abuse her without fighting back. I'm not sure if that's info dump, but you're right, it's probably different from any of the tells you mentioned. Sorry!

                          Tomoyuki

                          You are talking about inconsistent character traits. It’s a huge/frustrating problem. In my mind this is something different from telling vs showing. Authors need to make a character trait sheet or something to make sure they aren’t writing crap characters to fix problems like this.

                          Telling is stating things bluntly for the reader to read. Showing is creating a scene where the reader can infer information without being told directly. It is much more involved writing that basically puts an extra burden on the author to create a thought/feeling rather then telling the reader what to think/feel.

                          I’m too lazy to make examples, but generally telling is very quick and lazy writing. Showing is usually more involved as the writer takes their readers through a scene to convey complex emotions. Information dumps (a form of telling) are usually very bad and boring.

                          The biggest problem is that people typically put information dumps in the beginning of their story, so the first thing they do is list a bunch of “facts” about their story or fictional world that puts new readers to sleep. It would be better to start with some sort of exciting scene or action that shows what people in the world can do. Even if an info dump is required, putting it later in the story is better because you want your opening to be very catching. Then, you can explain the scene in more detail later or spread your information dump out over multiple scenes to make sure the readers understand how the world works. It’s why so many stories start with a scene and then have a flash back to explain it.

                          Also, character descriptions have to be telling because you can’t really “show” physical traits that well. You can weave the physical description into some sort of action to break it up and not make it an information dump, but you can’t really “show” what a character looks like in writing.

                          Basically, showing vs telling comes into play with how you manage information. Are you lazy and just throwing information at the reader, or are you taking the reader on an immersive journey where they learn about your world with a character?

                              shadowdrake27 Oh, yeah. That's probably what I'm talking about, but I don't think making a character trait sheet works. In fact, I suspect these authors tend to throw all the traits they wrote in their character sheets into the descriptions, telling the readers how smart, strong, brave, handsome, etc. their characters are. Most of the traits are excessive and unnecessary - I think John Truby mentioned this in his book on how to write. Many authors make the mistake of adding as many traits to their characters as possible, but it doesn't give the characters depth. Instead, most of these traits are extravaneous. And pointless, given that the characters don't act like how their traits are supposed to be. Like in my examples, supposedly "smart" characters doing reckless things and getting into fights for no reason, or "brave" and "strong" heroines allowing their CEO husbands to abuse them.

                              If I'm not mistaken, Truby actually suggests you create characters and their traits based on the story you're writing. It's more organic that way. What is your story about, and what are your character's goals? Design the traits and personality based on those. Is it a story about a young man trying to cross the Atlantic? Then he should be adventurous. How does he end up on a boat to the Atlantic? Was he escaping from debtors? Then make him cowardly, and maybe over the course of his journey he learns to brave dangers and becomes a courageous man. You don't need all the other unnecessary details like he's handsome, or he's smart (well, depends - does he use his intelligence during the journey? Or is there someone to guide him?), or he can juggle, or whatever. If they aren't relevant to the story, you can mostly leave them out. Because, quite frankly, no one cares if he can juggle unless it's somehow crucial to his survival across the Atlantic.

                              So there's nothing wrong with telling readers about character descriptions. The issue is making them relevant to the story and consistent. Instead of telling us a character is brave or smart in the text, have a scene where the character does something brave or smart, otherwise it's just an empty and untrue description. Like, the protagonist jumps off a ship to rescue a drowning passenger. That says a lot more about his courage than a simple sentence of "Sam is a brave person." I honestly don't know if having a character trait sheet works, but I think it's simply better to stick to an outline of the story itself and let the character organically develop from there.

                                  Tomoyuki

                                  Yeah, I agree with what you are saying. Having a sheet to track characters just helps keep them straight so you don’t contradict yourself. It will not make your writing better unless you follow it, haha.

                                  It doesn’t hurt to have extra information about your character, but you don’t need to tell the reader everything in an info dump. Only tell the necessary information to your readers, but knowing everything about your character can’t hurt. Your characters will feel more real if you have a deeper understanding of them.

                                  Having a “smart” character that does dumb things is lazy writing. Also, showing that a character is smart is better than telling readers a character is smart. We are on the same page, I think.

                                    Oh yeah, I just remembered one of the stories that made me pretty annoyed. A clear example of tell and no show. Or lazy writing. Anyone heard of My Super Hot Mom is An Assassin? We even have an officially translated manhua here on Webnovel. Not sure if it's worth your fast passes, though.

                                    Basically, we (the readers) are told how the female protagonist is a top assassin, so you'd think that she's strong and skilled, right? But no...throughout the story, she gets defeated by everybody. She can't even fight a gunman, she gets captured by maids, she can't fight the male lead because he's stronger than her (so much for being an assassin) and ends up being raped by him multiple times. She can't even sneak into the male lead's house without getting caught, and the male lead and his assistant see through her disguise immediately when she poses as their driver. And even though she's an assassin, she leaves the door to her apartment and bathroom unlocked, so the male lead can sneak inside and peek on her in the shower. And when that happened, instead of reacting like an assassin, she screams and gets all shy. Also, I don't think she actually killed a single person throughout the entire story. She finally got the courage to shoot a girl late in the story...only for the girl to survive anyway, which makes her a complete failure of an assassin.

                                    ...so how exactly is she a top assassin? We're supposed to believe that she's a top assassin simply because the author tells us that? Why isn't she behaving like one?

                                      Always showing over telling. You have to hold the reader's hand and walk him or her through your book, make them feel and see what you are visualizing. And there are way too many things to show—like character's mood, setting of the place, sensory details, actions, etc.

                                      Example: I would rather show my character's anger in a dialogue, an action or how his expressions are, or how he feels internally, rather than merely saying, "He was angry."

                                        MishaK As a reader, I'd agree. But its kinda hard to show (without proper vocabulary and English is my 3rd language, so I can't really write concisely)

                                          Tomoyuki
                                          What even is this novel? I'm getting a headache just reading this summary alone. I don't think the author knows what an assasain is.

                                          Its not even lazy writing here, its just stupid.

                                              Tomoyuki It's a manhua titled My Super Hot Mom is an Assassin. Webnovel even has it translated here.

                                              Hummina hummina hummina bazooooooooing! eyes pop out AROOOOOOOOGA! jaw drops tongue rolls out WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF tongue bursts out of the outh uncontrollably leaking face and everything in reach WURBLWUBRLBWURblrwurblwurlbrwubrlwburlwbruwrlblwublr tiny cupid shoots an arrow through heart Ahhhhhhhhhhh me lady... heart in the shape of a heart starts beating so hard you can see it through shirt AUUUUUUUUUUUUUU rocket thruster opens and launch with hundreds of fireworks YA HA HAAAAAAAUUUUU lands down to chair and crash AAUUUHHHH!

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