InfernalRhage sooo like... the "systems" system came about because of the popularity of VRnovels right?

its supposed to be based in the concept of being "gamelike"? right???

then why the heck are there a lot of sentient system
its a freaking system.... just be a system, so many novels be it, originals to FF's insert some kinda sentient system thinking theyre so original and sht.... thinking it makes the story endearing and stuff but for me its soo cringy....i can accept when a system gives missions and stuff.. but i cant accept a system that screws with the mc for the sake of "plot" progression that honestly is so blatantly forced that its cringy....

i also cringe when a system talks back to the mc when an mc asks something... just say "authority level is not enough... unlocked at lvl#" dont make the system snark the mc for being a weakling and useless nobody just for asking a question...... and some system even belittles their host... wth id rather be happy with a 2nd chance without a cheat than a system that treats me like that and i also dont like mcs that keeps calling their systems as bullshit while overly relying on it..like really? your now at the level where your one of the strongest and you call your system a shitty system? like howd you get strong? if your that dumb, if you dont have a system you might have been dead already.
system should not be sentient so that mc doesnt get screwed and also the mc will stop complaining realizing that theres no use talking to an unresponsive thing and just treat it as a cheat...

but i do admit the novel seized by the system when i found it was a good change of pace for me hope there wont be too many repeats of the same concept...

but the biggest cringe i have with systems in novel, also including VRMMORPG novels is that the author seems to have forgotten how games usually are made. yes i know it is fiction and there are stories out there that are still a great read, even though some elements doesnt make sense... but really rather than base their story on an established system, that is the same for everyone even the user, and strength is differentiated by the skills of the player... i see novels that give the mc bullshit drop rate/encounter rate/game breaking items and the most hated of all bugs.. i say that bugs should not be used as something to make an mc take a lead on others is because in the real world when someone exploits a bug in a game it gets patched... and if a bug does get exploited in games it usually means that tons of people have done the same.

      FujiCigarette Yea luck based VRMMORPG's are way to overplayed what gets me with them is how the MC of those novels is the only one who seems to have an insanely high luck stat. I mean if one person found a bug like that others are going to as well, and then its gonna get nerfed in the next update no game allows one class/skill/build to be that broken without fixing it. You are also right about the intelligent systems if you want your MC to have a companion with him at all times like that give him a personal AI in his head, or a split personality that will work too.

          InfernalRhage i like the system for this one--- SEP

          stats are determined by the level of your skills.. and you can only unlock some of the stats if you had the skill for it... like you have the intelligence stat, but without acquiring some intelligence related skills, you wont be able to see it...
          also stats increase the more you level your skill up rather than the usual skill point per level norm...

          my ideal system goes like this:
          Status Page
          Name: player
          Health: 100% Stamina: 100% Energy: 100/100
          Strength - 1
          Physique - 1
          Mentality - 1
          Energy - 1
          Control - 1
          (average stat of a normal human is 1)
          Strength - physical strength of a user; higher number means more explosive force, faster speed and contributes a small % of defense
          Physique - Durability of the body, density of bones, recovery speed, and large % of defense
          Mentality - power of the mind, increased memory retention, faster memory recall, increased speed of perception, improves reflexes
          Energy - amount of energy a body has denotes damage done by energy attacks, amount of mana, stamina, spiritual energy, physical energy etc..
          Control - overall control, effects control of body, energy, body's dexterity and also affects how you use skills

          skill page
          Body Skills
          - physical training level 1 - passive +to str and phys/level
          - Left hand mastery level 1 - passive additional damage/control for left hand/lvl
          - right hand mastery level 1 - passive additional damage/control for right hand/lvl
          - basic boxing level 1 - active +str,phys,con when used in battle/lvl
          - combat mastery level 1 - passive ++con in battle situations/lvl
          Mental Skills
          - speed reading level 1 - passive +men, active-increase reading speed/lvl
          - mind palace level 1 - passive +men, and memory retention/lvl
          Energy Skills
          - energy manipulation level 1 - +en/lvl, ++con/level, increase ease of control of energy
          - energy blast level 1 - dmg=en+con*skill level , basic energy attack
          - energy mastery level 1 - +con/level and adds damage equivalent to skill level to energy skills

          id like a system like this ya know... where you dont get skill points nor status points, you need to train to increase stats.... also uses a low no. in status denoting that the no. 1 actually means something, like if you had a 10 in stre you are 10 times stronger than a normal human.
          and also note how skill level affects stats and how stats affect skills i know im not portraying what id like correctly, but yeah you get a general idea

              6 days later

              this thread needs to stay alive as there are more and more novels with cringy systems popping up... why the everloving Christ do people think that making the system banter with the mc makes their story interesting,, was only interesting the first time round, now its just unoriginal and cringe worthy with how people keep trying to one up the past systems by making their systems have wacky personalities which arent even as original or interesting as they perceive it to be......

                i hate it when systems are self aware, like talking and answering every little question mc asks, pointing out everything that happens and above all knowing stuff and giving mc information that he doesn't know. plain and simple with stats skills stores and simple descriptions of skills and stats and other "tabs" is the best imo.

                  We need a system system system.
                  MC talks to system.
                  System talks to its system.
                  That system talks to its system.
                  In fact, let's just remove the MC. We can write a novel about the secret society of systems and their meetups where they trash talk their owners. Perhaps have a nice system dinner ball with a lot of dancing. Few universe overloads that made them attend. Serve some nice crumpets and tea. It'll be a grand old time!

                  InfernalRhage
                  Personally I like system novels, but I also hate novels that are unrealistic. It seems like those two things cant exist in most novels. However, I think the novels that are able to make it work are fantastic. Of course, novels with MC's having access to everything in a store are unrealistic to me even if they are inside a game. If you'd like I would love to have your opinion on the system in my novel, The Archaic System.

                      InfernalRhage
                      Personally I like system novels, but I also hate novels that are unrealistic. It seems like those two things cant exist in most novels. However, I think the novels that are able to make it work are fantastic. Of course, novels with MC's having access to everything in a store are unrealistic to me even if they are inside a game. If you'd like I would love to have your opinion on the system in my novel, The Archaic System.

                          It is extremely rare for 'system' novels to have any actual decent plot elements. Most of the ones I have read are absolutely horrible and the author uses the 'system' as an excuse whenever he wants to introduce something or remove it.
                          Systems act like crutches for any novel and make it MUCH easier for authors to be more thoughtless with their plots. Need a new ability? Magic fuckin system is here to magically give it to you without you having to make it logical or give any reasoning.
                          System this, system that, although I used to love them but now they have become an outlet for unimaginative people to get in on VN bandwagon without putting any actual work in.
                          80% of the time systems suck total ass and make no sense. I have no respect for most of these new "System" novels. Rarely will there be one which is grounded in reality and the author doesn't use the system as an excuse for every little thing.
                          Its the absolute thickest of plot armors and literally ruined novels for me. I haven't read any in months because every time I log on all I see is system of this and that which just makes me sad.
                          There are some really good ones as well but they are extremely rare.
                          Its just a shame to see that you can make a "system" novel reach the top 100 without putting in any actual thought into your novel whereas others who think theirs through are left at 300+.

                            shinigami8671
                            I'd really love to get your opinion on my novel, The Archaic System. I totally understand what you are saying about systems. However, based on what you said I think you will like my novel.

                                Muigetsu Your plot actually sounds really interesting. Added to library and will give it a read when I can!

                                    there are good and bad ones I guess... The best System novel i ever read was a fanfic actually. Even though I hate fanfics XD. It was a crossover of RWBY and the gamer and that guy really knew how to implement plot in his story! He even let family members of the MC die for plot's sake!
                                    I think many people use systems because they feel it is easier to write technically. They can write in stiff language. Many sentences they can copy paste for later chapters... "System notifications!" Easier to get higher wordcount... That might be one of the reasons why many systems can communicate.
                                    The fact is that it is not easier at all. To balance a system is the hardest thing there is... The biggest rule should be to never use stats at all.
                                    When you start using strength = 1 Mc can lift a small rock and strength = 100 Mc can lift a mountain than there will be at least one guy who starts doing the math... telling you a rock weights 5 kilograms and a mountain doesn't weigh only 500 XD
                                    or mc can stop a car using 10 points in strength and a bus with 50 points in strength then you will have someone looking up the actual weight of both and tell you it is impossible XD
                                    For real... I read the gamer and I saw in a forum someone doing the math how hard and fast a bullet flies shot by some special gun and telling everyone that he cant withstand that because he couldn't withstand the other thing a few chapters earlier... This might be the reason why the gamer stopped showing us how he gained stronger powers or how he levels them up. The author stopped telling the readers the ability levels...
                                    What I mean is never use hard numbers for them, they are your doom!!!!

                                      SuperSilentSin
                                      That's a good point and I do use hard numbers for mine. That's why I think it's important to incorporate world building and realisticness at every level of your writing. I often ask people to review my novel and critique any plot holes they see. I have gone back and fixed many things my readers noticed. One of my readers mentioned my MC couldn't have swam as far as I described without Olympic level abilities, so I went back and changed the distance. If I made the mistake you described I'd go back and change every stat I wrote to fit the math. However, authors not willing to change their novel or do the work necessary to change it should not use a system as you said. I'd love it if you looked through mine, The Archaic System, and commented on anything you notice.

                                          SuperSilentSin if ya talkin about "the games we play" by Ryuugi... then yeah that was one of the first gamer fic i read....
                                          after that i just get pissed because of how many authors butcher the gamer... it makes my blood boil how shameless to tag the title "the gamer" crossover when they dont even get the damn system right

                                          gaining stat points via training for a few minutes, gaining skill by just thinking about it and what not.. and most of all those freaking perks.... like sure most games have perks... but the original series sure didnt have them at the beginning... and then elements from a CYOA came in like there was no tomorrow

                                          ... but yeah down with the system... just kiddin, i love litrpg's, vrmmorpg's and novels with systems
                                          but i sure damn hate novels that doesnt have a coherent system, its the one elements that should have a fixed----well system..

                                              I'm kinda nervous about promoting my VrMMO novel here. Should I?

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