Hyowha To shift away from anime’s, many detective stories and thrillers do not use the curve that you mentioned. More often than not, you find their climax at the end of the book, in which wither the culprits is revealed, or maybe even not.

I'd like to pinpoint many parts of your post but let's start with this, because I'm not sure what we are talking about anymore.

"you find their climax at the end of the book"

Have I ever said something different than the climax is supposed to be at the end of the story?

    BravelyNovice

    You don't learn how to write by writing. In the same way you don't learn how to build a house by putting a brick on another brick.

    You need to learn the trade by others first and then you need to do a lot of exercise.
    For writing: you read the manuals and only then you start writing.

      ValentinaKhan
      Was the curve you are referring to is the classic way to write a playscript, known as a 5-way act triangle, in which the climax is in the middle?

      https://www.google.com/search?q=play+5+acts&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiW8cfpo9nfAhURfnAKHSilASQQ_AUoAXoECA0QAQ

      EDIT: Hey I saw my mistake, the whole time I thought you were talking about something else.
      But hey, this also shows that there are different ways of structuring a story, not just using the transofrmatoon arc. So my point still stands

        ValentinaKhan I repeat. Every story follows the Transformational Arc. If it doesn't it's not a story, but a teenager's wet dream.

        Really? Wow! Who said that? Must be a powerful Sith, I'll bet!

        So, how to elongate your narrative?
        You can do like Martin: writing a story with many POV, almost every POV a transformational arc itself.
        You can do like Tolkien: writing the backstory of every damned tree branch. But you risk to kill your readers by the sheer amount of infodump.
        You can do like in the Hunger Games series: writing multiple arcs but every one of them self concluding (Escaping the games, overthrowing the government, etc).

        #1 Lol, were you too lazy to google the name of the Hunger Games author?
        #2 See what the problem is with your examples? None of them are web novels. See, with a title called "how to write a webnovel..." I expect you to stick to that format when citing examples.

        Or you can use some cheap tricks like in most asian narrative: Fan service, fillers, slice of life and so on.

        It's really difficult to find a story which doesn't follow the rules.
        (If it doesn't it's not a story, but a teenager's wet dream.)

        Again with the generalization. And you're either not looking hard enough, or not looking in the right places.
        #1. Movies are stories, too, right? I can point you to a bunch of war movies that have no transforming protagonists. They don't change, they just survive. They are spared a horrible death not by overcoming character flaws or whatever, but sometimes by sheer dumb luck or outside intervention.

        Or, certain movies just depict a snapshot of someone's life, i.e. over the course of a few days. Example: Inside Lleywin Davis. The protagonist doesn't transform. He just... exists. There's not inciting incident, we just see his struggles, and at the end, nothing is resolved. His life continues.

        Or, the Dollars Trilogy by Sergio Leone. You can argue that The Man with No Name doesn't transform at all throughout the trilogy.

        I can go on and on, but you get the point.

        #2. Look at The King's Avatar, the #4 (Edit, #5 now :() on Translated story ranking and tell me: How did the protagonist transform?
        Most people would scratch their head at that question. Sure he has flaws (1 or 2), but it doesn't affect the plot in any way. He has the same personality in nearly 2000 chapters. The thing that does the most transforming is his umbrella.

        And I dare you to say that novel is a teenager's wet dream. If you do, then (1) I applaud your ballsiness and (2) Congratulations, you just alienated the very community you set out to "educate."

        What you've outlined in your "guide" is not a webnovel. It's just a story cut down to bite-sized chunks. I'm not dissing your guide. I'm just saying: it doesn't fit a web novel.

        I suggest changing the title to "One approach to writing fictions." It's more reasonable and open to discussion. Assuming that's what you're trying to be.

        When I saw the thread, I thought it was an invitation to a discussion. However, it looks like you're just here to dispense wisdom and expect to be responded with praises and thanks. If that's the case, I'm gonna peace out and go back to verbalizing my teenage wet dream.

          Folks:

          Character-driven stories

          Plot-driven stories

          I don't think there's only those two types, really, and a story can of course be both at the same time.

            i legit thought webnovel doesn't have plots and have just a basic knowledge about what should happen then think of what could happen then just add it then if you paused on doing this part just bring it up again and stuff 😂😂

              ImBloo

              I sense you don't have the tools to sustain this conversation, so I'm going to simply point out what you got wrong in any example you made.

              You can look up for the definition I'll put in italic with Google, I don't have time to waste teaching angry kids the abc of storytelling.
              (If any other apart from this crybaby want to know, I'll gladly explain.)

              Inside Llewyn Davis is a Transformational Arc, but our Llewyn is a Tragic Hero.

              The Dollars Trilogy aren't stories, they are situations

              The King's Avatar is a comeback sport story, like Rocky and Any Given Sunday.

              I add:
              Of course the The King's Avatar is not a teenager's wet dream. A teenager's wet dream is when your character has everything and nothing happen. Something along the lines of "I'm the coolest kid in school, girls want me and boys want to be like me. Forever and ever. No ifs, buts, or ands."

              Then, is TKA a good story? Objectively not.
              But, but...it has a Transformational Arc? Yes, but it's poorly developed.

              Don't get me wrong. I like the story, but if popular=objectively good, then we should gather every Sunday in a dedicated building to read a page from 50 Shades or Twilight.

                ValentinaKhan

                Yes, Popular = Good
                What other method, is valid if not Popular = good.

                Sounds like your disconnected, from the world.
                While every novel is not meant for everyone, I can say 50 shades of gray is one of the best novels of our time.
                And I 100% hate that fact, but it has a movie and is a best seller...
                Calling it 'Trash,' because you do not like the topic, is just not being objective.

                Also calling I'm Bloo a crybaby... You sound like a little girl who got slapped by daddy.


                  ValentinaKhan You seem to have lost touch with reality, as you perpetuate your opinions as facts.
                  When you reach a point where you believe that popular =/= good, you have automatically distanced yourself from an objective viewpoint, and instead are spouting nonsense about what YOU define is good or bad, based on YOUR standards, not much unlike the internet warriors, or the old men telling tales on their armchair, who know nothing but feel the need to undermine those around them.

                  There are many resources which define whether a transformation arc i should needed or not, but that there is even a debate to begin with means that a transformation arc is not the ultimate gospel.
                  You speak as if it is the law, such as how gravity bind us to the earth, but you fail to see that it is not the case.

                  If you look again at your past arguments you may realize that you have interwoven yourself into a tale of bullshit. And I don’t really understand where you find your audacity to judge upon other stories with such a self righteous disposition.

                  There have been many examples given as to why your theory is untrue, so I won’t repeat myself.
                  But just for good measure I will send you a link, https://www.scriptmag.com/features/craft-case-character-arcs

                  Get off your fucking high horse, can’t you see no one agrees with your statement?

                    Hyowha Coincidentally, I've just been reading about narcissists who have no capacity to understand they could be wrong (read on, please, I don't mean you). It's sad in theory, but if you're in any kind of relationship with them, it's anything but; it can be downright scary. Something about the OP's insistence on his/her POV rang alarm bells, but maybe I'm just being jumpy. P.S. They don't like being called out or shown up. P.P.S. They like feeding off the negative reactions of others (it's best that we leave them alone). We should all be informed of these kind of stuff so we could keep ourselves protected -- just my two cents :)

                    P.P.P.S. Might be advisable to lock this thread soon.

                      Acutelittletrap Just to play devil's advocate, but many "classics" were unpopular at their time of publication. A couple examples are "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and "Moby-Dick" by Herman Melville. Of course there are the few that made it to the banned book list like "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and "The Grapes of Wrath" that are considered classics today as well. If you claim these are not good, well, there are certainly enough people who would disagree. I'm sure if we give "Twilight" and "50 Shades [...]" another decade or two, they will be long forgotten by all but our generation. I'm also certain that the classics of our time will be some obscure books read by few. Additionally, I highly doubt any of the webnovels we see today will become classics either despite my enjoyment of them today.

                      Random plug: My hope is that R. Lee Smith can get some recognition, but with the triggering nature of her works, it'll never happen.

                        KoraL this is exactly what I had in mind, thank you for voicing my thoughts which I couldn’t exactly describe.

                          Acutelittletrap
                          Popular is different from objectively good.
                          If you don't think there are tools to objectively analyze stories and you think is only about personal enjoyment en masse, say so straightforwardly.

                          Let's agree to disagree.

                          Hyowha
                          Do you want a links war? There you go:
                          https://www.scriptmag.com/features/craft-case-character-arcs#comment-279256

                          I already found you at fault of not reading what I wrote with the Climax in 5 acts vs 3 acts thing. Now I found you at fault again with this simple matter: have I ever said something different from "How to write a story"?

                            KoraL

                            I would never claim, that books have to be 'Popular,' when they first come out.
                            [I have never read these books.]
                            There is many reasons why that can happen, [Political= Bible] [Objective of the book=Satanic Text.] [Content in the book= Extremist viewpoints.]

                            A good example might be if someone made a book in the 1850s, about the pros and cons of slavery. This book might not have become popular until freeing slaves became a topic in politics.

                            But overall, unless your book is meant to changes peoples mind about something, or control a certain type of people/person.
                            I would say that the lack of being popular is an issue.

                              ValentinaKhan
                              Please, don't use a random comment on a random site to prove your point. Otherwise, it is like the anti-vaxxers. They found one studies that said that vaccine caused diseases/mutations/random things and now they rather allowed the survival of near-extinct diseases. This is supposedly a friendly forum, you can express your OPINION about a subject, your OPINION is by definition SUBJECTIVE and therefore, doesn't allow you to bash anyone disagreeing with you. In the real world, nothing is really objective so the very fact that you use that term for something like a novel or a story is disturbing.

                                ValentinaKhan I really am shocked speechless. Have you read the article?

                                And I explained focus you how a climax is not needed at the end and can be placed also in the middle, as evidenced by the link I send you, so I hardly agree that’s you found me at fault. You need to stop cherry picking points that suit your case and devolve them into straw hat arguments only so you can preach your skewed world view.

                                And please, when you link my article back, at least read though it or just say you do not agree. Instead you find fault in a place which has been answered in the given article.

                                I will just leave it at that, feel free to argue back, and I will stay silent.
                                Take it as you will, but there has been enough posts on this forum which the readers can pull their opinions from. As we both won’t find agreement, and I respect your opinion, even though you are wrong.

                                  Innovation

                                  I bought a gun. I aimed that gun at a target. I fired. The bullet instead of going forward went backward and hit me in the face. May I say that gun wasn't objectively well made? Or is only my subjective opinion?

                                  Now, change the gun with a book or any other narrative work. Something change?

                                    Hyowha

                                    Bloody Jesus on his cross! Did you read the comment I linked you? Story is a technical word which describe a specific kind of narrative. The article didn't metion any stories, but situations. Clear enogh?

                                    And again, Climax in 3-acts in not the same thing as in the 5-acts. What is a climax in a 5 acts is called Midpoint in the 3 acts.

                                      Web Novel Novel Ask