Webnovel.Forum

ValentinaKhan You seem to have lost touch with reality, as you perpetuate your opinions as facts.
When you reach a point where you believe that popular =/= good, you have automatically distanced yourself from an objective viewpoint, and instead are spouting nonsense about what YOU define is good or bad, based on YOUR standards, not much unlike the internet warriors, or the old men telling tales on their armchair, who know nothing but feel the need to undermine those around them.

There are many resources which define whether a transformation arc i should needed or not, but that there is even a debate to begin with means that a transformation arc is not the ultimate gospel.
You speak as if it is the law, such as how gravity bind us to the earth, but you fail to see that it is not the case.

If you look again at your past arguments you may realize that you have interwoven yourself into a tale of bullshit. And I don’t really understand where you find your audacity to judge upon other stories with such a self righteous disposition.

There have been many examples given as to why your theory is untrue, so I won’t repeat myself.
But just for good measure I will send you a link, https://www.scriptmag.com/features/craft-case-character-arcs

Get off your fucking high horse, can’t you see no one agrees with your statement?

Acutelittletrap Just to play devil's advocate, but many "classics" were unpopular at their time of publication. A couple examples are "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and "Moby-Dick" by Herman Melville. Of course there are the few that made it to the banned book list like "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and "The Grapes of Wrath" that are considered classics today as well. If you claim these are not good, well, there are certainly enough people who would disagree. I'm sure if we give "Twilight" and "50 Shades [...]" another decade or two, they will be long forgotten by all but our generation. I'm also certain that the classics of our time will be some obscure books read by few. Additionally, I highly doubt any of the webnovels we see today will become classics either despite my enjoyment of them today.

Random plug: My hope is that R. Lee Smith can get some recognition, but with the triggering nature of her works, it'll never happen.

KoraL this is exactly what I had in mind, thank you for voicing my thoughts which I couldn’t exactly describe.

Acutelittletrap
Popular is different from objectively good.
If you don't think there are tools to objectively analyze stories and you think is only about personal enjoyment en masse, say so straightforwardly.

Let's agree to disagree.

Hyowha
Do you want a links war? There you go:
https://www.scriptmag.com/features/craft-case-character-arcs#comment-279256

I already found you at fault of not reading what I wrote with the Climax in 5 acts vs 3 acts thing. Now I found you at fault again with this simple matter: have I ever said something different from "How to write a story"?

KoraL

I would never claim, that books have to be 'Popular,' when they first come out.
[I have never read these books.]
There is many reasons why that can happen, [Political= Bible] [Objective of the book=Satanic Text.] [Content in the book= Extremist viewpoints.]

A good example might be if someone made a book in the 1850s, about the pros and cons of slavery. This book might not have become popular until freeing slaves became a topic in politics.

But overall, unless your book is meant to changes peoples mind about something, or control a certain type of people/person.
I would say that the lack of being popular is an issue.

ValentinaKhan
Please, don't use a random comment on a random site to prove your point. Otherwise, it is like the anti-vaxxers. They found one studies that said that vaccine caused diseases/mutations/random things and now they rather allowed the survival of near-extinct diseases. This is supposedly a friendly forum, you can express your OPINION about a subject, your OPINION is by definition SUBJECTIVE and therefore, doesn't allow you to bash anyone disagreeing with you. In the real world, nothing is really objective so the very fact that you use that term for something like a novel or a story is disturbing.

Hyowha

Bloody Jesus on his cross! Did you read the comment I linked you? Story is a technical word which describe a specific kind of narrative. The article didn't metion any stories, but situations. Clear enogh?

And again, Climax in 3-acts in not the same thing as in the 5-acts. What is a climax in a 5 acts is called Midpoint in the 3 acts.

ValentinaKhan No. But is the gun really well made? However, that gun can only fire at 100 meters, maybe 200 meters. I wanted a gun to fire at 1km so for me subjectively, that gun is not well made, it is useless. I can use the opposite, you bring me a sniper rifle when I want a small pistol that can fit in my pocket. Both of them are useful in specific situations, but only one of them is well made for my need. That's my point and that is for a concrete object. A book is based on the imagination of its readers, something that is not even measurable. that's why I say that a book can't objectively be described. You could gather the 100 best writers and have them discuss a book but none of them will be able to say those arrogant words. Even making a book better for 90% of people could make it worse for the rest.

@WEBNOVEL_OFFICIAL
Lock please, no clear objective is found here. I think in general Valentina has pushed her viewpoint to hard and has aliennated the very people she meant to 'teach.'

I suspect her of being a Narcissist, which is not really a bad person just a bit of an ego problem.

Innovation

There's a difference between saying a gun is well made and a gun respond to my personal taste. You may prefer a gun able to shoot at 100m, I one able to shoot at 200m. They are both objectively well made guns, they do their job, none of them shoot backwards.

Now, let's suppose we read a romance webnovel which proclaim to be a story. A story by definition implies a Transformational Arc of the character. We discover in reality our character not only doesn't change (if the character fails to change it may become a tragic story, we are still following the tranformational arc), but also that he doesn't need to change. That's not an objectively well made story. It's not even a story.

It may be a situation, but that's difficult for romance. Situation are usually used for genres such as adventure or action. (This paragraph is only a plus 'cause I picked romance as an example).

But...
We enjoy the tale nonethless, why? Because it's personal taste.

Nothing wrong with personal taste, but just because you like something it doesn't mean it's objectively good. The contrary applies as well.

Or do you think there are no tools or methodology to analyze a narrative work?

My final two cents.

Webnovels cannot sacrifice popularity because they are meant to provide income chapter by chapter. This makes it intrinsically more difficult to spend time in some of the phases since the webnovel may be dropped before anything "exciting" occurs. A successful webnovel must be full of hooks and cliff hangers (to the chagrin of the reader) until the story or the author has a stable enough following to actually develop stories in the manner prescribed.

KoraL What you said is eye-opening, thanks for that.

Also, guys, as entertaining as all this is, you're just letting yourselves get sucked dry. They have no capacity to admit they might be wrong and/or that another person's perspective that runs counter with theirs might be right (as in incapable, okay?), so if that's your aim, you are seriously wasting your life. Take it from someone who wasted years.

@CKtalon Don't feed the troll, right?

ValentinaKhan

Long Shot activated. Valentina, you there?

Anyway, it has been over a year since I have been reviewed. Recently I was going through some stuff and found what you have reviewed.

In the year since, went around a little and felt like I have broadened my horizons somewhat.

I realized some stuff. Sometimes it is not about the title or the so called years of experience.

This concept that was put forth- was it meaningful? Did it have content? Can it hold up?

It is quite rare for some stuff to stand the test of time- and in unexpected places too.

While I may not agree with method of delivery sometimes- and not everything is about the ends justifying the means- most people can appreciate a good play.

Welp, just throwing a pebble out here. All the best.