• Questions

  • Is signing up a contract with webnovel really that bad?

Dan_Ryder Imo there's no point explaining the difference between de jure and de facto in this setting. I'm confused as to why you would bring that up. Usually that distinction is made for things like segregation. The terminology of de facto is usually used when there was a problem with creating something like a contract, corporation, or marriage. Maybe they teach law differently in your country, idk. If you are indeed correct that they've never enforced certain clauses, then that's certainly relevant information. But it is also not relevant to my point.

You are right that the first thing one would do is to research precedents. But that's if one were hired or writing an article or the like. I'm commenting on a forum. I think there's confusion as well since you mention me commentint on the contract. I didnt even read the contract or talk about any of its clauses. I don't have a client asking me to help with their IP or contract dispute with webnovel. Again, I was simply commenting that in general a company acts as it will and the individual then has to fight back if they dont like it. That's it. I saw someone talking about the legal process and how that would constrain a corporation's actions and I found that analysis did not reflect my understanding. I was not analyzing the contract nor seeking to explain the entirety of international contract law. Nor was I researching who would win a dispute. Im simply talking about the most basic realities of the process.

Btw if you read my previous reply you'll see I advise prospective authors to consult a legal professional. At that point that legal professional would do the research to see how the contract or similar contracts have been treated and see what the precedents are.

    ThyUnknownSaint heres the links to that reddit post

    MotivatedSloth I'm sorry to bother to ask this especially knowing that the post MNG is referencing to is out of date but what differences are there between the complaints put forth from that proposed contract and the complaints that we currently have here on webnovel about its contract. all the complaints from that post are valid when applied to either site from what I have heard. for instance

    1st copyright: all works on webnovel that are premium are owned by webnovel because to get contacted/ go premium the author has to hand over the copyright.

    2nd on free reading: this site definitely doesn't have the same problem as they do in China with legal pirate sites but it does share the problem of having any revenue produced from ads being taken by webnovel which is unreasonable. luckly they removed ad watching entirely as it really wasn't a good revenue source even when all of it was being taken by webnovel. as noted in your posted https://forum.webnovel.com/d/39823-alternative-options-for-locked-chapters/2

    this site does have an illegal piracy problem but what paid content on the internet doesn't. (I'm shocked at how much those sites do take and how many there are literally every single time I go google for a books fandom page there's a new pirate site there its a serious problem)

    3rd Copyright Revenue Sharing: don't want to get into that can of worms seeing as no one i have seen has brought it up yet and I don't want to get sued. luckily, currently, it doesn't apply to any original works from webnovels but the potial is there if the preconditions are meet.

    mng what do you think of my argument i think it was a good add on to your point.

            Dan_Ryder They are mostly long block paragraphs, but please read them before replying to them rather than imagining what I wrote and then replying to your own imagination. This is the real world, not the one you are imagining in your head. To help you improve and not fall for this straw man fallacy again, please refer to the following site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man. It will help you make a better argument and help you find actually problems with what other people write.

              MotivatedSloth Well argued point. I would just be more wary. It does seem on the surface that a number of these clauses are not worth being enforced by webnovel. And I personally believe you make a decent argument for it. However, it neglects how much pressure can be put onto a signatory to comply with them having a literal signed written agreement on them. It also neglects the fact that sometimes the companies might do things that initially seems illogical and just because you don't have the full picture. Music companies sued some relatively poor individuals for pirating music. It was not cost-effective and I believe it did not help reduce piracy significantly. They still did it though. How can you in all honesty say that another company won't resort to legal action to enforce something even though it costs them more than its worth? Human history is literally littered by bad decisions that almost any idiot could realise was was a mistake but was made anyway. Especially when you are not one of the decision makers who will determine whether webnovel chooses to enforce the clauses they specifically put into their contracts.

              @Aby55's posts imo make several good points that are also worth considering. Me copying what he wrote, I also hope you have a good day and realise that what we write is about making informed decisions with the appropriate information.

                  ATCkit Makes sense to me. Though I have not gone through the whole contract and I am sure there are other clauses you need to consider. For example, there are some other points I recall being mentioned like a minimum word count per month. These other clauses are worth looking into, because maybe you don't want to be held to a minimum. Maybe you like the flexibility of having an off-month or a going back and editing-month or creating a plot outline for future arcs. Or maybe you have advanced chapters for patreon supporters and are not sure you can keep that supply sustainable and also meet the minimum requirements while maintaining your commitment to these patreon supporters who might be giving you more financial support than the company. And that is just one of the clauses.

                  TL:DR version: Consider each and every clause of this contract and see if it is something you are comfortable with. Maybe the example I gave would actually be a plus in your mind as maybe you are the type of person who thrives with this external pressure? However, maybe there is a clause that has not been mentioned in this post that will trip you up in the future (e.g. morality clause, or if you want another author to "inherit" and continue your novel but webnovel does not allow it).

                  As mentioned in earlier posts, it depends on what you are willing to accept. If I was considering a contract with webnovel I would:

                  1) read through the ENTIRE contract, preferably with a lawyer;
                  2) determine if you are comfortable with ALL of the clauses; and
                  3) if you are serious about doing this for money, check out the competing sites (e.g. Penana, Wattpad, RoyalRoad, etc.) and see if they might be able to offer you something you prefer. Though how you make money on those sites is slightly different from webnovel.

                  Whatever you choose, you can then be assured that it was the best option available to you at the time. Hope this helps and sorry it was not more concise.

                      mng advice still worth less than dirt. Even giving incorrect information now.

                      • mng replied to this.

                          mng That's an excellent point. I've personally seen companies spend $3 million to defend a lawsuit but wouldn't offer more than $40k in a settlement. Makes absolutely no sense, but like you said: people are often illogical.

                              Dan_Ryder Read the post first. You replying without reading could be why you cannot understand it.

                                  Aby55 Yes, and sometimes companies make seemingly logical decisions that turn out to be bad due to having insufficient information. Not a perfect example but I believe most would agree that Harry Potter being rejected by other publishers was bad business decision by said publishers.

                                  And apologies for the late reply. I have no idea how I missed your reply from both my notifications and my own two eyes viewing the screen. Sorry about that. It was not intentional.

                                    Dan_Ryder While apologising about other mistakes I made, I guess I should also apologise for assuming you also did not read this post just because you did not read my other posts before replying to it. Can you point out any incorrect information? I believe today has provided a few more to my unfortunately huge list of mistakes I have made just recently.

                                      mng This is not actually a direct contract with Webnovel, but a contract through a third party that allows you to sell your work on webnovel.

                                      So the standard web novel contract is the same, there isn't like a different version of the same contract.

                                      • mng replied to this.

                                          So just to add my own two cents into this thread, I believe anyone at any time should have a lawyer look over a contract which is the main point. Technically speaking, the normal contract do have clauses in it to protect web novel (like any other company offering contracts) like the ones you have mentioned, but it does not mean that web novel will use said clauses and such. If you are worried that they would for whatever reason, then yes the non exclusive is better in that regard but with a non exclusive, as stated it is through a third party service and you will overall be making less on web novel for your work.

                                          However, I have not met a contracted author personally (I know quite a few) who have had said things brought up with them.So it mainly comes down to your trust in web novel as a platform and if you want to give up X% to be in a better position where said clauses are even less likely to happen to you.

                                          Hope this helps! :) -The Sleeping Tadpole

                                          Dan_Ryder

                                          Hello, I just read the whole thread and read your post. I was contacted by a rep from WN today interested in my stories on Wattpad. I went online to research the company and other platforms that have contacted me in the past week to sign with them. I am a bit worried about the validity of the platforms especially because they are Foreign. I don't want to be screwed in the end if I do write for any of them.

                                          Can I ask if you are happy with writing for them and is it worth the pay? This rep mentioned they would offer me a non-exclusive contract so I can keep it on Wattpad, mind you I already have a few stories on another platform and 3 others are interested in the same ones. I do not want to give up the rights to my stories so that will be the only way that I will consider even looking at a contract.

                                          I would really appreciate your advice before contacting the rep.

                                          Thank in advance.

                                              5 days later

                                              JKSManga Thanks for the information. I kindof assume this third party is either affiliated with or owned by webnovel, but that could be a wrong assumption on my part.

                                              I just stand by the read the whole contract with a lawyer and see if it meets your needs or not. For example, if you have a starving family then any money is probably a good thing. Even if you "trust" the company and people who you are dealing with, that could change. People come and go in a company or they might turn out to be different from how you envisaged. Especially when money gets involved.

                                                  16 days later

                                                  Patricia_Hernandez_7480 mng hey guys sorry for the late reply I have been very busy for the last month and just got around to coming back on the forum. I haven't read the forum post MNG was talking about before (https://forum.webnovel.com/d/40195-non-exclusive-contract-question).

                                                  But I just want to mention what I know about it. from what I have heard about the practices it's even worse than Webnovels in house contracts. see this post from a wattpad author down below showing how bad some of them can be. https://web.archive.org/web/20200324165720if_/https://www.wattpadwriters.com/t/i-dont-know-what-to-make-of-this-offer/21977.

                                                  Edit: lucky I backed it up before wattpad nuked there forums lol.

                                                        MotivatedSloth you made a good point and you are right in most aspects but just having those clauses in there worries people and alot of writers would prefer to own all the copyright of there book I'm not saying you are wrong and I have all the information on the topic but alot of writers write for fun and don't like the idea of there book being edited or taken over although it will probably won't happen people just like to stay safe

                                                            heyitsbluejay

                                                            While there appears to be some truth to what you said, let me explain why its only an illusion.

                                                            1st - Getting a freelance, from home work is already an extreme rarity. Most of the people will work 9-17 in their lives if they are capable enough to get any proper job, or spend most of their days working anywhere that offers them the chance to earn. Most of the jobs are not dream jobs, but necessary ones. As much as it applies to me, it applies to everyone else.

                                                            2nd - Jobs that helps you create a passive income are even harder to come by

                                                            3rd - If we are talking about contracts, we are talking about money. Childish fears no longer apply. You can either take a leap of faith (or just be normal person and ask already contracted people) that gives you the chance of becoming someone who is realistically unheard off in normal life. When people learns that I live my life with writing (as close I am to reaching the point where I won't be able to do it anymore) they just can't believe me, because of how unusual it is.

                                                            4th - If you treat writing as a hobby and do not wish to reach greater heights, why are you considering the contract in the first place? Asking around will let you learn in a flash that to earn, you need to work hard. And while this kind of work is far more pleasant than answering customer calls, it's still a work. You won't get anywhere without daily releases, and after extended period of time, it gets hard to keep them up.

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