DeJeL I haven't read your story but I just looked at the synopsis.
You can sit here and say you're transported to another world novel is original because you made up a name of a planet or content? If you paint grass red its still grass. You got the idea from somewhere.
Because I don't paint the grass red my story isn't just as original as yours? I call bullshit.
Naruto didn't invent Ninjas or Ninja villages. So I can use that same argument against you.
I agree with SweetsTomato.
Fanfics have a huge starting bonus. Even if you never introduce a single source character, you start out with a potentially large fan base. Little to no effort is required for world building. The readers already know the world, the rules, the cultivation system, etc. You start with a large framework that guides your work. On the flip-side, you have limited long-term appeal if the fandom dies off. You're also restricted to that same framework that guides you.
Original novels start with nothing. Everything must be introduced in steps at a level of detail that explains the world, but doesn't bore the reader. You start with many less fans, but may have better long-term growth potential. You have more freedom in your writing, but also must worry about conforming to the rules you create down the line. Poor planning can cause problems, because the author might not know all the rules at the beginning. They create as them as they go. Then the author can shoot themself in the foot later on.
Each group has strong pros/cons. Neither is necessarily better than the other. However, I think it's obvious they should be separately listed and ranked. Is there even much overlap between the two groups of readers? I've only read original, so I'll admit I'm biased. Anyone should take my view with a grain of salt. However, I imagine most fanfic readers stick to fanfic and most original readers stick to original.
Are there any readers of both fanfic and original novels here, while not being an author? They would be able to present the most unbiased opinion.
Myumara
You're basically claiming everything ever written is a fanfic. Naruto is an entirely unique world. Everyone who enters is almost guaranteed to have been a Naruto fan (I myself love Naruto!). The readers enter with a certain understanding of the cultivation (chakra system), history (the countries/villages), and the most powerful characters (those with tailed beasts).
It's a little ridiculous to compare that to an entirely fictional planet. The planet could have entirely different laws of physics, species, government, social customs. Yeah, the grass may be red, but the author has to let us know. In Naruto I know the grass is green before I read it.
Oh. One other change I'd like to see. I feel that separate areas should get their own power stones. For example, instead of 3 power stones overall, I think it'd be good if we had 3 for voting on translated, 3 for voting on original, and 3 for voting on fanfic. It'd keep a nice balance between the three categories.
SnoozySloth If I read a cultivation novel I can automatically assume there are manuals, different levels of cultivation, sect are where powerful people gather, the strong people are those who mastered the Dao.
If you are familiar with anything you can expect certain things going in. Nothing is truly original anymore.
Fantasy novel? I can assume people join an adventures guild, elves are swift and good as magic, kings have powerful mages under their control and beautiful daughters, demons and bearskin probably exsist and are discriminated against.
So yes, everything is a copy of each other at this point. Warlock of the magic world COPIED wizzard world yet people like WmW BETTER.
Can you honestly say nothing in your novel is copied from something else?
yu_ba_bu_neng I just find it ironic that all these Naruto fanfics are on a site that originated from Chinese translations.
Myumara
Everything comes from somewhere. You're describing cliche's. Some authors follow them. Others break them. Others invent entirely new ones over time. My point is that all of it has to be explained. The reader doesn't know until I tell them.
Let's use the below sentence as an example for both a original novel and a fanfic. I'm being super lazy and writing a crappy sentence just to make the point.
'Roger lived in Treeleaf village. It's a ninja village in Greenwood country. The village existed in a large forest.'
Original: Now the reader knows that Roger is somebody living in a village in a country. What world? Do they dress in black clothes and throw ninja stars? Or do they have amazing powers that allow them to become superhuman? How big are the trees in the forest? Whats the architecture style?
Naruto fanfic: The reader can probably guess the architecture. They may be able to guess the rough location in the world depending on the quality of the writing and how big a fan they are. They know that ninjas are superhuman more similar to superheros than ninjas. They probably wear a variety of stylized clothes instead of plain black ninja outfits. They know what the ninja need to do to get stronger.
My own novel as another example. I introduced a mech suit. Okay, what is a mech suit? Is it a giant 20 story tall robot that shoots laser beams? Is it a 6 feet tall exoskeleton that the user wears? In my case it was a steam powered 10 foot tall mech that moved clumsily. It didn't have hands and blasted hot water towards enemies. It shone a bright bronze hue. If it was Gundam or Code Geass then the reader knows exactly what they look like, how they work, and what to expect.
SnoozySloth In USA white people also wanted black people to be separated from them because they thought they were better than them.
Nazis separated and killed Jews because they thought they were better than them.
Separating something from competition because you don't like it? Petty. If you want to separate fanfic then say you want the all stories to be separated by genres, not the ones you don't like.
Myumara
I literally read every genre other than fanfic. I don't hate fanfic. It just doesn't make sense to group it together with everything else. I don't think either one is better than the other.
It's pretty disgusting that you would compare a debate over whether fanfic/original should be separated or not to the holocaust and racism.
Is somebody a nazi if they don't want to see movies in Steam? Netflix exists for that. I don't want movies clogging my feed when I'm hunting for games. Yes, I know Steam now has some shows/movies available for purchase. However, their separated from everything else.
Is somebody a nazi if they think government and church should be separated? They both serve the people, have followers, and lead people. They impose morality, rules, and expectations on their members. Why not just combine them then? Because they're two very different things despite being similar.
SnoozySloth Lol you really think in a fanfic you can write a shitty line like that? It just shows your bias. If you don't think people can imagine what a steampunk mech looks like then you underestimate people.
I can do the same thing.
Johhny enterd his custom mech suite and shot hot water from its hand cannons, because the mech was 10 feet tall it moved clumsily due to its low center of gravity. He had to carefully aim his shots because the water tank on its back was limited, even the timing had to be carefully planned to avoid overheating.
Oh wow, that was so hard to describe....dude doesn't make originals sound hard to write. In my opinion originals are easier to write because you can just make up whatever you want.
SnoozySloth I think it's disgusting you want things to change just because you don't like something. You don't like movies in steam? I'm sure many people do like it, but most won't comment saying they like it and just go hey, that's cool and watch movies.
You get people like you who say fanfics should be separate because you feel as though it's taking something from you so you want it gone. That's disgusting and bias.
Stop this argument!
NOW!
....please...
Myumara
You have a fanfic bias. I have an original bias. I admitted that before debating. I didn't use actual lines from my novel. I'm also not saying fanfic is easier or harder to write, except for world building. Since the world is already built in fanfic.
Both types have unique challenges, pros, and cons. I can respect your opinion that they should not be separated, though I disagree with it. I also think erotica should be separate, which others disagreed with. People don't have to agree on everything. That being said, it's dumb to claim everything ever is a fanfic.
Out of curiosity. Would you be for or against combining all of it into one then? If original/fanfic shouldn't be separated, then logically speaking, translated novels shouldn't either. We would all see our novels plummet in ranking drastically. If you're okay with that then your point stands on it's own legs regardless of whether anyone agrees or not. If you don't agree with it then you're a hypocrite.
Myumara
It takes nothing from me whether fanfic is separated or not. My novels are not popular so it hardly matters. I don't read fanfic. It's in the way when I look for novels to read. I don't want to see movies when I shop for games. I don't want to see porn when I hunt for funny youtube videos. I don't want to see NFL when I try to watch cartoons. All of these are very different things. They all are similar or identical types of media with very different fan-bases, users, etc.
I'll stop arguing now as Kingicez requested. It's clear neither of us will change each others minds. I respect your opinion and I may very well be wrong. I have an obvious bias on this issue. I'm not so conceited to think I'm always right and everything should be as I want it. Thanks for the debate.
SnoozySloth Everyday I sort novels by popularity to compare my novels to translated ones. Why can't I aspire for my novel to one day surpass Reborn: Evolve from nothing or library of heavens path? I have dreams too and seeing something that I spend 10+ hours a day writing rise to the top is my goal.
But because you don't think the Genre is good enough you want to take that away from me?!? Of course I'm upset, those authors are human too and we're all struggling. You think I have it easy because my "World" is built? I spend 2 hours or more doing research just so I don't mess something up!
For you to even imply that I have it slightly easier is like a slap to the face for the work I've put into this.
Myumara
I never said you can't aspire for that. Nor did I ever say fanfic isn't good enough. I've repeatedly emphasized that neither is better than the other, but you seem to be ignoring that. Nobody is trying to take anything away from you. I just want them separated the same way translation/original are. I even think they should each get their own power stone votes so people can vote across all three categories without being forced to use them only on their favorite.
You make a fair point about the research. I didn't consider that. I'll take back what I said about the world building being easier. As I mentioned previously, I'm biased and not always right.
SnoozySloth That the problem. If all three have separate power stones what's the point? It's a point of pride to know your fans chose to vote for your novel with their limited power stones.
If fanfic had their own power stones my novel might be number 1, but so what? I don't want a participation trophy. I want to struggle to the top with everyone else.
Knowing my novel is top 50 on the entire site is a great feeling, and separating them would just inflate the rankings.
Every week when the rankings reset I sit there and watch every vote come in because every vote is precious so it means something knowing people voted for me.
But if its separated? People are just throwing stones at my novel to get their daily SS and it cheapens the whole thing.
SnoozySloth If you want to separate fanfic, then separate every genre.
Myumara
Fair enough. Your argument stands on its own legs then. You should push for support to combine fanfic, original, and translations all into one large group. That way, everybody is competing against everybody. I don't agree with the idea, but it could very well be the best method. Perhaps WebNovel should hold a vote/poll on the front page or something.
