LilyK Funnily enough, it's always Webnovel or writers who are exploiting the readers, but readers never consider about how they exploit the writers by demanding for daily updates, mass releases and then object to paying for it.
Either you put up with slow, weekly or monthly releases and quit clamoring for mass releases, or you pay for them. Otherwise you are in no position to complain about being "exploited."
Please, don't use words you don't understand.
Unless you want to say its unfair for WN and the authors that are contracted to change from the PROMOTIONAL approach where everything was way cheaper than it should, to a buisness model that actually starts bringing any real profits.
Do I force you to read my works?
Did I put a gun to your head, claiming that if you won't buy the coins and use them to unlock my chapters I will burn your entire family and rape your house?
Did I negotiate with your boss to force you into reading my novels if you want to keep your job? (Which you most probably, don't have and never had so far, since you lack the understanding of the basic concept of the purpouse of the money)
No. I did not.
Yet you still dare to claim that me (or authors in general), are exploiting the readers, despite it being the readers who are pirating our books, making profit out of our stolen works and even selling them on amazon under fake names and titles?
Authors are the one's exploited here, not the readers.
Novels were cheap or free because WN was promoting itself in order to grow. Now that it needs to sustain itself in a normal manner, people like you are angry that something that was offered for free prevoiusly now has normal price to it?
Go home, do your homework, do your chores and then show your message to your parents, as they are the only ones with any chances of teaching you any sense.
MotivatedSloth tell me which part of the whole ss/coin thing is not exploitative (buying virtual currency for real money is a well known and notorious way of making users unknowingly spend more than they would have normally) and dont even get me started on the "privilege" chapters bullshit
LilyK
Virtual currency isn't a new thing.
Lootboxs, mobile game "gems" and "diamonds", even tokens for your local arcade -- these have existed for a very long time.
If you don't bother to keep track of your own purchases, then it's not anyone else's fault when you end up paying more than you meant to.
But what about WN changing up how they provide free SSs and Fastpasses? They are free to do that, just like how any company can choose to give out package deals for sales or jack up the price of a item.
It's up to you to decide whether to buy it or not. Instead of complaining, vote with your wallet. That's the only way to sway a company's decisions.
kazesenken thats why I said it was notorious. And Im already voting with my wallet, by supporting sites that actually care about both readers and writers alike. And while we may know how to take care of our money, how about kids who have access to their parent's credit card, or people with certain disorders? Its unfortunately very common for that to happen
LilyK
How is that valid as an argument? How is it anyone else's fault that someone isn't responsible for their actions, even if it is a kid or have a disorder? A parent or guardian is responsible for keeping them from the temptation.
And don't say that this system is only happening here, when anyone can get deluded into any kind of addiction, like people become alcoholics and drug addicts because it makes them 'seem cool'. Or gamers spending their paychecks just so they can stay ahead competitively. Are people on WN so addicted to reading that they can't give it up and are forced to buy chapters? I don't feel like that is the case.
No, that's not how the world works. Otherwise, I would steal you CC, and say it's your fault because I stole it when you were asleep.
Thankfully, in the US, companies willingly refund or work with the owners when these things happen. And if they took too hard of a stance, most people would avoid purchasing such products. -Which is the problem, getting sales because more sales = more money. Not blaming pirates etc, because all writers get that done to them. So shut up and deal with it or move forward, because your wining on web novel is not going to anything.
In short, you're a moron.
Also, to all you writers stinking of entitlement, it's stupid to assume or hope you will make money when you likely have not proofread/edited/ checked for plotholes or even obtained a beta reader. Hell all you have done, is likely publisher your first or second draft of an unfinished novel.
I shall inform you that most books lose money, more so in this era of writing. So every contracted writer is privileged in that they have never lost money to publish like 80% of authors do.
Study the industry learn that a writer must also Market even though we all hate it. Learn how to market and build a brand. And if you have done none of the above, why in the world should you earn money, before even coming to the standard as those who have failed before you?
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. But it's actually past my bedtime and I guess my brain needs some rest. So, maybe if I could actually decipher your words in the morning, I'll reply with a proper response. Or maybe not. shrug
Cantiara the parents being irresponsible doesnt make it valid for companies to exploit that irresponsibility to get more money
LilyK
Good luck making that case in a court of law. I'm not saying you're wrong that they shouldn't take advantage of people, but pay per view is a business, one that has been going on for a long time. And it's not going away anytime soon.
I don't particularly stand on any side of the writer/reader argument. I write as a hobby and purposely reject contracts and donations, because I don't feel like getting mixed up in all of this business. But I do get irked when people come here bickering how everything is behind some paywall, expecting their favorite content to be somehow free and use other examples of free content to suggest how we authors are somehow exploiting you readers.
Us authors are just following a system of rules that are laid out to us. If we don't like the terms, we'll go elsewhere. If readers don't like the terms, then they'll go elsewhere.
It's useless to argue about changes if WN finds that it profits in the end. If you like a story, but don't like the medium, find another way to at least support the author. Demonizing authors or readers at this point gets us nowhere.
Acutelittletrap
Wow, you're crazy.
Speaking of things with such "ownership", are you a webnovel writer? Have you had your novels pirated?
You still say that piracy is good and the problem is who is pirated ...
Well, you should go and get treated ... Oh, I hope it's not too expensive out there and that you're not an author who had your novels pirated in order to pay for the cost of your treatment.
Good Night!
Acutelittletrap No, that's not how the world works. Otherwise, I would steal your CC, go buy a bunch of stuff from a shop, and then go blame the shop for "exploiting" the customers. If you steal something, the blame lies squarely on you, not the company or the shop for "exploiting" you. In this case, the children have betrayed the parents' trust, and the parents have the responsibility to punish their children for abusing the trust they gave them.
Honestly, my parents wouldn't have given me the CC or their cards when I was a teenager, and I wouldn't want it either. If I want something, I would approach my parents and ask for it, not go steal their CC, and then blame Webnovel for exploiting me or whatever. If I did that, then I deserve to be punished. In this case, the onus is on the parents to punish the children, not to blame Webnovels for exploitation, and not to shift the blame to the writers or anyone else. You punish the thief, not the shop the thief buys from. Or is that logic too hard for you to follow? And here you are, acting all arrogant and calling Cantiara, who is one of the smartest people I've ever talked to, a moron. F* YOU.
In short, you're an asshole.
Also, when you accuse writers of stinking of entitlement, you sound very full of yourself. Writers are not earning money like professional authors (and they earn way less than what a professional author would make, by the way). They are earning money because of fast updates, and because they have earned their popularity. Obviously those who haven't put in any effort in writing their stories, those with irregular and inconsistent updates, and those who didn't manage to gain a fanbase don't get contracts or earn any money. Take note, I am not pretending that the stories on here are polished or some masterpieces that deserve awards, or to earn the same amount of royalties as professionals (and let's face it, most writers earn less than $10 a month, not counting the minimum guaranteed sum). All I'm pointing out is that, these writers do work for a certain amount of hours a day just to keep up their daily updates, and that's what they are being paid for. And they get paid pitiful amounts, but I don't think anyone compains about how little they are being paid because they know the quality of their work is not up to par. That's fine, though. They are being paid based on quantity rather than quality, and you can make a case of quality by pointing out that they earn way less than what a professional writer would have earned.
I also have to point out that many Amazon novelists who publish their works in Kindle don't do that too, but no one is accusing Amazon of exploiting readers, or accusing Amazon writers of being entitled for selling their works online and trying to make money there, despite their books not being up to par (and hell, some of them are plagiarized works - I've been a victim myself).
You are here basically saying that writers should labor and work for several hours a day, writing a chapter and posting regularly, for NOTHING in return. And then you call us entitled. Go think about what you're saying.
If you want regular chapters, if you want daily updates, and you want some form of entertainment everyday, where you can just turn off your brain and read stuff, then you pay the writers for supplying you for that. Otherwise, you are in no position to demand that writers spend hours everyday writing to post daily updates for nothing in return. If anything, it sounds like you are the entitled one (though I suspect you don't read anything here since you're a writer yourself). And if you complain about the quality, or how terrible the stories are, or how it's a waste of time to read them, THEN WHY THE F ARE YOU READING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?! If I don't like a story because it's bad quality, or because the plot isn't well thought of, or because it's edited poorly, I don't demand that the story be provided for free. I just don't buy it. I just don't read it. I don't demand to read it for free - and seriously, if I hate it, why the f would I read it for free in the first place? As terrible as it is, the fact of the matter is that the writer still invested several hours everyday into writing the story. I don't go to a restaurant and demand that I get food for free because it's bad or that I can get better food for cheaper elsewhere, I just don't visit the restaurant in future (and seriously, why wouldn't I go straight to that better and cheaper restaurant in the first place?!). Similarly, if the writer is really that bad, then nobody will buy his/her book, and eventually he/she will have to buck up and find a way to regain his/her readerbase. The readers should just not buy his/her book. Not go onto the forums whining about how he/she should provide his/her book for free. Is logic not your strong point?
It boggles my mind that entitled readers complain about the poor quality of the stories, how they are a waste of time to read, but still read them anyway. Quite frankly, it just sounds like you're looking for an excuse to read them for free, that's all. Logically, if you find the quality bad, or think it's a waste of time, then you should NOT be reading these stories, free or not. The only reason you continue to read them is because you find something appealing about them, you are entertained, or I don't know, you're invested in seeing in how it ends. And then you come here complaining about having to pay for them, despite getting steady, consistent updates...despite demanding that writers post daily and update everyday? Despite you essentially telling writers to labor for several hours a day for nothing in return except, what, a pat on the back from readers?
Sure, if you think writers should write for free, then we should just write at our own pace, whenever we feel like it, and update whenever we want, instead of being subjected to this insane "daily release" schedule, and readers should not make such unreasonable demands while clamoring for free chapters and mass releases. It's not as if we can magically snap our fingers and produce our chapters out of thin air.
Also, about the "lost money" bit. Webnovel takes 50% of the income of authors to pay for the costs of marketing, operating costs, etc. so we do "lose" money. It's baked into the contract. Basically whatever writers earn from chapters, 50% goes to Webnovel, so they are part of the 80% of authors. Even Amazon gives full royalties (if I'm not mistaken), but I don't see you complaining about Amazon writers being entitled even though a significant number of them published unedited, unpolished works on Amazon (I know because I'm friends with quite a few of them, and frankly, they couldn't even bother with hiring editors before they published their works on Kindle Unlimited, just so they can earn a few hundred bucks a month) at little to no cost (according to your logic).
I understand that Webnovel has got more expensive than it was earlier but this step was bound to come sooner or later.
It is still not a terrible deal for readers in my opinion.
Readers still get three fast passes daily to read for free. Once you exhaust them, you can opt for non contracted novels. If your heart refuses to leave your favorite stories that require you to pay, you can choose to pay. If you can't afford, you would have to let go. Regardless of if you like it or hate it, that's how it is.
I don't think there is anything that one can do about the new system. Accept it if you can. Move on it you can't.
: )
LilyK I hate to stand on the side of Qidian, but microtransactions are not exploitation. In general, they are getting you to spend money you had to spend, but you probably shouldn't spend. You can argue that they are preying on people with addictive personalities, but you can argue that for anyone who sells something to a person with an addictive personality. Those people refuse to control their habits regardless of the terms. So, by that logic, the only reasonable thing to do would be to give those people an unlimited supply of everything they want for free. If you can't see how it's ridiculous to expect a business to take responsibility for the customer's bad choices, then there isn't anything I can say that would change your mind. But it's that simple. If you want something, but aren't willing to pay the price, then don't get it. Or, learn to steal it I guess, lol. Be prepared for the consequences though. Either way, you can't blame the business if people choose to waste their money on it. Personally, I'd recommend finding a new hobby or a new place to read stories. Royalroad has some good ones, depending on your taste.
MotivatedSloth Don't like that she hit a little too close to the truth eh? Your response makes it obvious that you know that she has a point. You even went to the trouble of making ridiculous examples about how you aren't forcing them to read. Lie to yourself if you want, but you're going to have to try harder if you want to lie to me. More than a few people have posted facts with the numbers and stats to back it up, showing how ridiculous the prices are here. I don't blame the business for people making bad choices, but I'm also not going to pretend dogshit is gold just because you spray painted it with beautiful words about how authors and Qidian need to make money. You aren't being exploited any more than the readers are. But even if you feel that way, get one thing straight, the exploitation you feel is from Qidian, not the readers.
Cantiara There's a certain level of truth to that, but it's not quite that simple either. Especially in the case of charges that reach an absurd level and things related to virtual items. But, it's a fact that businesses are here to make money and it doesn't make sense to fault them for it. Pay for their services or find an alternative. There are plenty of stories out there, or plenty of other hobbies.
Acutelittletrap Reading you calling the writers entitled because they want to get paid for their stories is kind of funny. Seriously, you're actually arguing that you have the right to read it for free because of statistics on profit made by authors and book companies. I actually chuckled when I read that because you called someone else a moron while tossing out that load of horse apples. That bad smell you're whining about is your own breathe. Need to stop eating your own merchandise cause it stinks. Only person in this thread buying it so far seems to be Lily.
LostInFictions Eh. It hasn't been a good deal ever since Qidian went back on their word and changed the system the first time. But that's how things tend to go. Most things start out being free or for donations, then progress to some kind of fee at some point in time. And Qidian has never been an honest company, so it wasn't a surprise that they lied. I actually thought it was funnier that people were surprised. But it's also very true that their prices are absurd.
I do have to point out that most of the successful authors on Royal Road do end up selling their stories on Amazon, and eventually lock their chapters behind a Paywall, or ask for Patreon support (where they also lock the latest chapters behind a paywall, so something like Privilege), so if it's not as free as what most people seem to think.
That said, I agree that the prices here are absurd (at least with Patreon you can decide on how much you want to donate), and there should be a more affordable way purchasing bulk chapters.
Tomoyuki
First off, I called people in general entitled not one person.
If you want to make shit personal, I won't discuss it with you.
So keep your insults impersonal in the future. But, sure I may be an asshole, but I am right.
And, no I have never said that pirates are good, don't twist my words around. I said it happens and it happens to everyone-though Webnovel has a huge problem with, and that there is nothing that can be done about it.
Most professional writers write 2k or more words a day, a WN chapter only requires 1300 or so. So your daily workload is less than a typical writer, and then you figure those writers have worked for years while the typical wn writer has often just picked up the pen. WN writers are well below standard in raw effort and in final product, why in the world should they be making money?
The world is speaking its truth as they don't because the fruits of their labors suck. I never claimed to be a good guy, I'm simply telling people their wrong so that the few who really want to learn something or make money in the future can do so, but as it stands they blame others, instead of improving themself's.
The self is all that they control. Blaming Pirates, and worse the readers/ clients, is the dumbest idea a writer have. As, it's never productive. A writer works for people and people can demand whatever standards they want for their money, they can be as entilted as they desire, because it's their choice to spend it. It's the writers job to be WORTHY of the money of their readership. That's what it is to be humble, not entitled.
Also, I haven't web novels in ages, I don't priate or read them. I don't read them because the writing is below standard for me to even read. But, when the fuck did I- The person your addressing say reading webnovels is a waste of time? You love putting words in my mouth, but their not things I have said. I'm not going to defends other's viewpoints. You can take those statements up with them.
I have said, "Sometimes, I feel like reading something stupid and a Webnovel can do that for me." So, that's please, if you have a problem with readers, don't take it up with me, as I have never said anything up daily updates, etc, Personally, I'd rather a writer not have daily updates and give me good content, hell I'd even avoid novels that have them unless they're contracted.
That's not what I said...
I was talking about the writers getting paid that they should be honored they're making any money. As their many writers who have lost money in this line of work.
If something is free, a reader has no entitlement to anything. If a reader-pays, they can make whatever demands they desire as a client of the author. Of course, in turn, an author can pick their clients, just as a reader does.
Writers provide a service, I can reject or not reject as desired.
Also, I'm not a contracted author, I have seen the contract, it's something I would never sign. I have been offered other contracts, from other companies, but that's because they were interested in my work, which I consider an honor, with those offers I can reject or take at my desire. Just like a reader can not read my writing.
Tomoyuki True. But there are quite a lot of good stories there for free. And, even if you find one you like that isn't, they are usually in the neighborhood of $3 or under per book, as opposed to the 10-150 you would pay here. That's not even touching on the quality difference. And I was mostly just listing it as an alternative because I didn't want to mention their direct competitor, lol. Who, by the way, is making much better business decisions from what I've seen. But that's just my opinion. Time will be the true judge.
Acutelittletrap Yeah. Once you start talking about money it becomes far more complicated. On one side I want to feel that no amount of money entitles you to make demands of an author. But, on the other hand, I also feel that authors have certain responsibilities once they start making money selling their product. It's hard to balance so I usually don't try.
I've heard a little bit about the contract here, as well as the contracts for normal Qidian authors. Nothing specific, but I've heard it's not good at all. I'm always surprised that people accept it. I've always favored going with Patreon or Amazon. But that has its own obstacles as well.
