Webnovel.Forum

Lagrange7 I actually don't hate the paywall in theory. It's the price and the quality of the product that is the biggest concern. I tend to be fond of the general story in certain novels. But, unfortunately, those authors are masters in the Dao of fluff. I swear, Er Gen, Cocooned Cow, and some of the others can turn a single paragraph into 3 chapters. Maybe more. And I'm not paying $1 per paragraph. So I don't even read their novels anymore. I quit reading Er Gen novels when they were still free on other sites.

For the subscription... With the number of novels out there, splitting a subscription fee would be a nightmare. It would also be a pain picking the novels you wanted to read for that month. And it's slow money. Let me put it this way. There is a reason a lot of online games veer towards micro-transactions. Subscriptions don't work out as well in the long run for a lot of reasons.
As for which one I like... I never stop to think about it. Every system has its strengths and weaknesses. For me to like either, I have to see a benefit that is worthy of the price. And I don't see that in any system here because of the quality of the product in question.

We should clarify something though. This isn't about paying the authors. They got paid when they released it in their native language. Though they should naturally receive something from this as well. This is about paying the translators and possibly the editors. More precisely, this is about Qidian making sure they can take the lions portion of the money made while still tossing out some scraps to the people who actually did the work.

lozlo Your right about that, authors should be as concise as possible without adding unnecessary words to the story that would increase the cost of the chapter.

lozlo Ok, guess we are on the same page regarding quality then. As cynical as this sounds: at some point you just know what to expect of certain authors/stories. On the other hand being forced to pay SS before knowing how good that chapter is is a major reason i am against it. You are buying the cat in the sack basically.

Regarding subscription: I dont know if i understand what you mean regarding the work of splitting the sub-fee. SS are worth like what, some cents each? I dont think it amounts to much more work serverside. Agree on the "subs fail in the long run" argument tho, havent thought of it. But on the other hand i dont know of a sub-model in literature (except magazines and those are not a continuous story). Games are another thing. Subscription on games does not work because the game-model or the graphics or sth. else becomes outdated. That is not a problem with light novels.

Thanks for clarifying the part about the authors and translators tho. Was wondering if authors still get a cut from this site if its only translated...

Qidian is a story in itself i suppose. I think everything that can be said has been said in that regard...

lozlo it's because it became so annoying already this have been going on for 2 mos now and you d!ckwads seems to see it as something new. Get used to it already ffs. Every fvcking day there will be 5 threads about the same sh!t, there's an existing thread alreaady just post there no need to add more drama since it won't make any difference. WN will still and always will ignore you.

bachingchung Cool story bro. Try taking your own advice.

Lagrange7 Well... Splitting SS is pretty straightforward. Someone pays SS for the chapter, Qidian gets this amount, the author gets this amount, the translator gets this amount.
Splitting a subscription is different though. Are you going to split it evenly among the novels they chose for the month? Or are you going to split it according to the length of the novel? Are you going to track the chapters they read and split it that way? Or possibly split it according to word count? It can be very complicated, and every method has issues.
Well, it's a different meaning of fail. Subs work to an extent. There are still games that do subs and have been doing them for 10+ years. Though, most of them have switched to a hybrid system of sorts. However, especially with low quality work like this, subscriptions aren't going to be very appealing for long.

Well, the thing about the authors is somewhat ambiguous. But it's an ambiguous statement that came from a translator. And, legally speaking, it's still their story, so I'm pretty sure they get something.

Qidian... Yeah.

bachingchung Have you ever thought of some people actually not being on this site for a month or two? To some this IS actually new.

Not to me tho, i just like to take my time to put my opinion about things together.

lozlo Considering the author doesnt get anything when we use free SS to pay him i think this system is kinda ripping the author off. Most seem to be fine with it tho, which is kinda sad tbh.

Regarding splitting the sub-amount per month: I was thinking to about an even split between novels with minimum amounts. Basically, every author gets SOME money, but you can use a slider or just put in % to allocate an author more or less. If authors try to abuse this system by releasing less chapters readers would use their "slots" on other novels and the author gets nothing or a very small amount of money. If the novel sucks same. If your story is awesome and has a stable release people will probably want to reward you for it, making you earn more money and having time to focus on the novel. Its a virtuous cycle, the opposite of the "RELEASE ALL THE TIME AND BEG FOR DEM POWASTONES OR DROP IN RANKING AND FADE TO OBSCURITY"- mode of operation we have right now. Its just not a good enviroment to create a literary work of art is what im saying.

On the other hand my proposal would give more control to the readers while ending the current system of buying chapters which might or might not be filler. If you want more novels to read you can either upgrade your subscription-level or purchase single "slots" which come at a fraction of the price of an upgrade. This way you pay a minimum amount (smallest subscription) towards the authors while still maintaining the flexibility to add more novels at a reasonable price.

I guess you are right, most subscription games i know off have some kind of ingame-cash-shop.
We also have that with gifting the author, except we dont get jack in return...its kinda like a black hole for SS with nothing in return? A few hours or so earlier access to chapters in return or anything at all wouldve been nice...

Are these comments? Or some novel chapters?

Lagrange7 Well, first of all, you have to understand that, as I said before, the author got their money when they released it in their original language. The authors of these novels should be secondary at this point. It's the translators, and maybe editors, that are getting cheated 100%.
Second of all, you're speaking about an old community. People have been translating this stuff for free for years, which is why it's even popular in the first place and part of why I say the translators are the ones getting cheated. The Chinese authors and Qidian did jack shit to create or support this community. Qidian just swooped in and bullied their way into claiming some profit while destroying a system that, if there weren't too stupid to take advantage of, probably could have netted them far more money. I don't even remember what my second point was now... lol...

As for the ideas. They all have their benefits and losses. In the long run, the paywall probably makes the most, but I question how much it will really make with the overpriced SS they have now. They're basically begging people to pirate it with these prices. And their wish has been granted as far as I know.

I guess in that aspect games are a little different. Games NEED more players, even if they aren't paying, because the players who are paying don't want to play alone. They need to form parties, and they need to have people to compete with. Possibly even people to show off what they blew last weeks paycheck on, lol.
Novels don't need that. They do need publicity though. So maybe it's a toss up?

lozlo

Ok i guess i didnt consider the long history of haphazardly translated novels on obscure websites. Thats actually how i found and got into light novels in the first place, lol.

Yeah, the more and more i read about Qidians business-practices (if you can call them that) the less i like them.

EA of light novels i suppose...

Lagrange7 nah, the main problem root from ignorance and not reading the announcements. I'm already aware that this will happen a while ago since WN is on the stage of infancy, they considered it as a promo period. Then the successful novels will be Ad walled, premium then fully pay walled. I think it was on FAQs or BoA. So it's not surprising. Yet a lot of people still post the same sh!t everyday, typical. All rant yet they never bother to read the forums. Besides there are a lot of solutions posted to the older threads already, they are being highlighted till now.

lozlo The authors of these novels should be secondary at this point.

It depends on the contract. If they sold the rights of their novels to QI then yeah, but since those authors could still call some shots, it's safe to assume that they have royalty based contracts. As long as QI make money out of their novels, they are legally obliged to pay them. So you can't really put them before TLs and EDs.

bachingchung That's why I say secondary and not that they are completely unrelated. It's still their work, and they should receive something for it. But the people who worked to get it here in English are the translators, not Qidian and not the authors. Of course, there is an issue regarding contracts, so there is a lot to take into account depending on the terms of that contract. But, even so, the authors should be second. Their books are worthless here without translators. Much like how authors use to be nothing without a publisher and an editor. I believe that has changed over the years, but that's just a guess after considering amazon, kindle, etc. Even now, authors are probably still second place, but it's probably not as bad as it was in the past.
But, I guess with all that said, popular authors are a different story. They do get to throw their weight around, even in places they shouldn't have weight to throw. And, some of these authors ARE quite popular in China and in this... community?

WigglerGod Yeah, thats what i often read and the reason i was proposing a premium model with variable amounts. People are ready to pay for their entertainment, but they will never be willing to get screwed over for it (dont factcheck that).

lozlo the previous translators were doing it as a hobby with around 2-5 chapters a week, that's why QI contracted these TLs and EDs for a steady pay and stable 7-14 ch/wk. Even back then these TLs have reserved or lock chapters that could be seen through paid subscription. Everyone kept praising the old Patreon pages when $ 1 could only make you read 2-5 chapters ahead per month. depends on the translator. Some translators don't even translate unless the donation pool is filled.

bachingchung we aren't in China, look at YOUR reality

bachingchung What you don't seem to understand is that, we don't HAVE to get used to anything, also respect goes both ways okay