• Questions

  • Is signing up a contract with webnovel really that bad?

MotivatedSloth I am sorry to inform you, but this has already happened:

Qidian is pretty used to backlash and it has not stopped them. They just learnt how to handle it better (e.g. like negotiating they start off with a high demand and then are "willing" to "back down" to a slightly lower amount that contain all the key changes that they want). Which, to be fair, is pretty common practice for companies that prioritise profits over ethics.

Having said that, being a "puppet" is not necessarily a bad thing. If you care more about money than the IP of your work, its obviously attractive to sell your IP for money. And while other people can disagree with your decision, at the end of the day, if you are both happy AND aware of what you are getting into, then good for you. Its like buying lottery tickets. As an investment option its stupid. But if you buy it purely for entertainment with the expectation that you are more likely to lose money than gain money, its a valid choice. However, being happy with an ignorant choice can hurt you when you least expect it and when you cannot afford it. That is not smart. That is just stupid.

      mng There is one thing you can do with the post above. Shove it all the way back where it came from. Why?

      You pretend to act so knowledgable and informed, yet you failed to notice that while Yuwen owns BOTH qidian and webnovel, those two companies are entirely different, to the point that webnovel is even banned in China! As such. the way in which both of the companies work, is entirely different. Quidian holds practical monopoly over the entire literature in China, while webnovel is just one of the possible choices for the people. That's why, the entirety of the post above is meaningless. What they can allow themselves in China, won't happen in the international version. Give me A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF IT EVER HAPPENING IN WEBNOVEL, rather than trying to bring the dirt form the qidi, that has complete freedom to act as he wants, because not only he has insane market to itself (entirety of the china) but nothing to actually limit its authority.

          ThyUnknownSaint Do take note that the controversy is mostly over. It's nice to bitch about Qidian/Webnovel in the community, but when things are done right, you don't see such posts to say that the controversy is over. I'll not make much comment on it, but use Webnovel's competitor, since I don't want to come off as a shill.

              Deleteduser87
              Contracted Author here. Here's the reality.

              Your novel rights are worth nothing right now. If you think it is you should go put down your ego. Even amazing novels rarely get adaptations so there's no use validating something imaginary.

              Is the WN contract fair? As a contracted author I entirely believe its fair. Just like musicians sign contracts with record labels. You have to give up something to get wns in-house promotion. If you could stand on your own as an author you wouldn't even be debating it 😂.

              Webnovels that are uncontracted and make money with Patreon take a minimum 7+ months to build up popularity. I spoke to many of the popular uncontracted authors when I was debating such. That's 7+ months you need to be doing that 1500+ a day and get almost nothing anyway.

              Webnovel users will almost never go off-site, so it's a horrible platform to find patreon subs.

              Webnovel promotions as a contracted author will massively increase your fan base. Webnovels bottom line is to make money, they want your novel to be successful so they can get their cut of the novel and increase users on the app.

              They don't even want to pay you MGS, they rather your novel make over 200 a month so they don't have to. So you will get promotion to increase your fan base when you go premium. Old authors always complain that new authors get all the love, because they really take care of you when you first sign to make your novel profitable.

              First weekly feature doubles or triples your collections when you go premium. That's right, when you go premium they will basically gift you a large fan base with their in-house promotion. Building a fan base is the hardest thing to do as an author. They will handle that step for you so you can focus on writing.

              The people that like, comment, and stone a newer novel are an entirely different userbase than the people that are willing to pay for it. Go look at any newer premium novels and compare fans (paid subscribers) to power stone rankings and you will understand. You haven't met your fan base yet, the majority of them are silent.

              Top webnovel authors post much more than the 1500 words a day for MGS, and they make good money to match their efforts.

              If you want to be popular on Webnovel the only way is to post a lot of chapters a day, or set up mass releases. Author of Mech Touch Exlor does 6k words a day. JKSManga author of MVS does 6-7k words as well.

              They are outliers but most successful authors do 2-3k min a day. If you can't do 1500 a day being a WN author isn't the field for you, that's just the reality of the job.

              At the end of the day it's up to you to choose the best path forward for you. WN has the biggest user and subscriber base that spend money on webnovels. If you want to get experience as an author it's a great thing to contract your first work.

              Amazon and Patreon both require large fanbases to be successful with. Something a new author doesn't have. WN gives you a clear path to build a fan base and make money as an author.

              On an ending note, the people that cry WN contract is unfair usually aren't authors to begin with. So their opinion on the subject is worth less than dirt. I've never seen a response that calls the WN contract barbaric actually give a well thought out plan of how to "do better" than contracting with webnovel for a new author.

              All they scream is lul patreon or lul kindle unlimited, when both of those are very difficult markets that require heavy fan bases to even participate in. Yes, if you were an author with a huge fan base then Kindle/Patreon would be a viable option for you, but even then WN offers different contract terms to people that already have fanbases to have more quality content on their platform.

                  It is really funny that all new writers think they are the new J.K. Rowling and afraid wn will cheat your money. I don't want to offend anyone but the reality is harsh, almost all original novels in this site are not that good. If not you will never write here but already follow Agatha Christie's steps instead. I never try to write but I am an avid reader that read many novels so I can judge this clearly from the point of view of readers. So sorry if my harsh words offend someone.

                    Cultivator199
                    I am also an author on webnovel and I completely agree on this point.
                    Guys if you are writing to earn money, an us the best option. And if you think wn is going to cheat you and stuff. Please go ahead and do not contract. You cannot get paid for the work you do and still call that work yours. This is a world of give and take. They pay you, you give them your stories. It is that simple.

                      MotivatedSloth I am not entirely sure I understand your argument. As far as I can tell you seem to think that: "its owned by the same parent company but because one site is apparently banned in China they do not operate the same way"? That sounds like a crazy argument. Its like saying a communist dictatorship cannot have a secret police force because a fascist dictatorship has one. Just because a site is banned in one place does not mean the other party cannot operate the same way.

                      In regards to how they would act differently because of a monopoly, that argument is also flawed. Having a monopoly allows them to fix certain things, but not having a monopoly does not stop them from enforcing contracts or suing people for breaches of contracts. Its the whole point of contracts. Saying people will not enforce terms on contracts or at least threaten to do so is a fundamental misunderstanding of the whole point of contracts. And please note this applies to all contracts, not just webnovel. Trying to spread such fundamental misinformation is harmful. If its just a matter of taste or opinion, I would be less concerned. But spreading such misunderstanding about contract fundamentals is dangerous, so please think things through beforehand. Telling someone to be wary about what they sign up for is crucial. Please don't underestimate the importance of this.

                          (sorry this was a double post as the forum claimed the earlier post did not go through). Though I have now taken advantage of it to include some thoughts on later posts to the one I replied to.

                          I just read what Dan_Ryder and Cultivator199 wrote and I believe they make many valid points which are in no way inconsistent with the basic fundamentals of read the contract fully (preferably with a lawyer conversant in employment contracts) and to take note of any and all clauses involved. Reading and being mindful of contracts and all the clauses are basic fundamentals. And assuming that the contract will be enforced. Whether it is fair or not depends on your own circumstances and expectations. But do not go into a contract in ignorance. A fair deal for person A, may not be a fair deal to person B. And yes, not everyone is going to be the next JK Rowling. But be mindful of what you are willing to accept and what you are not willing to accept. And the only way you can do this is to read the whole contract and take it seriously in its entirety. Nothing in there is a joke. If it is, it would have been removed. The only exceptions are joke contracts that are not legally binding. Contracts with any legal companies are not joke contracts. All the points in them require you to read and understand to make an informed decision.

                              ThyUnknownSaint Sorry, but everytime I post the link it seems to come up as a picture instead. Not sure why. But you should be able to do a google search of the title ("Upper Tier Qidian Author Ji on New Contracts"). It comes up first in the list of results on google search if you do that. I cannot find CKtalon's source but that is possibly because I do not have the title of the post to google search. Its probably true though as it seems to indicate that the most controversial points were removed, as opposed to a capitalist company providing more money than they feel they need to. Its highly common for negotiations to start with a worse offer and then "give in" to some sort of middle ground. Qidian (QI) possibly just did not anticipate or worry too much about the backlash of the initial attempt. Though I am obliged to point out that the last sentence is my personal opinion (not concrete fact) and the second last statement, while a basic negotiation technique, is not necessarily what QI intended to do from the beginning.

                                    Oh look @mng with the non-author advice again. He googled fu'd his way here guys make way. He told you the contract was bad with long block paragraphs. But he didn't bother to tell you how you could make money off your novel though, which is your main issue. His advice is worth less than dirt.

                                      mng

                                      You see, as much as being wary of legal documents is a good thing, in my native language, we have this funny distinction. Letter of law, and spirit of law. The first part, is what's written in the documents that decide HOW the law is enforced. You can often find crazy sht out there, but against all common sense - it's still there.

                                      And then there is something called spirit of the law - basically, what does this law means in reality. How it will be realistically enforced! You can have the harshes law that condemns you to the death for possessing a lollipop, but if no cop takes it seriously, you are free to eat the candy as often as you want, just keep in mind to not burn some cities or the gov would FORCE the law enforcement to act seriously.

                                      It's that simple. Just like @Dan_Ryder mentioned, Qidian puts a gun to author's heads, but it will never fire. Why?
                                      1st: - enforcing the clauses of the contract would have to go through international court, as all international contracts have to go through a medium
                                      2nd - actually using those questionable clauses would mean burning their own goose laying golden eggs. People are willing to work for them and write for them only as long as they feel comfortable with them.
                                      3rd - There are many many topics out there, from the bugs, through the different features all the way to the constant growth of the site and how to cope with it, that takes the time of all WN staff. If you really think they can give an F about any particular author leaving, writing something that might be unnice to China or anything like that,... They would either shadow-ban or remove him. First meaning that said author is banned from any form of promotion, second one happening when one breached the contract by posting stolen or CP content as his paid work.

                                      Overall, I'm not telling you to not be wary about such stuff. I remember how crazy I was over it back when I signed my first chapter. But now that I have a first-hand experience on how it works, I can sum it up all with just one sentence.

                                      WHO THE FUQ DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, TO ASSUME THAT YOU ARE WORTH FOR WN TO RISK THEIR ENTIRE BUISNESS ONLY TO BULLY YOU SOME?

                                          MotivatedSloth I'm not the OP or anyone else who has been writing on webnovel and worried about a contract. I read this topic out of curiosity and then gave my advice stemming from my knowledge as a legal professional. You then decided to personally attack me. You assumed I'm a writer, assumed I want to write for webnovel, assumed I think i would be a great success, etc. You're completely strawmanning me to discredit my advice. The only reason to personally attack me like this is because you can't refute what I said. Honestly I'm confused why you're lashing out at me and others...over what? Different interpretation of a contract?

                                          All I said is that IF they wanted to they could enforce the clauses in the contract without going to court first. They have control of the platform and would at least appear to be within their legal rights. Then, if an author didn't like what was happening, it would be on the author to file suit to get an injunction or render those clauses unenforceable. The company does not have to go to an international court to ask permission like you make it sound. Companies enforce contracts all the time or even go further and straight up wrong individuals. The individual then has to fight back. That's all I said. I was correcting you since you made it sound like the company could never do something without going to court first. I didnt even say they WOULD do those things, simply that they could.

                                          In the end I find it ironic you said I'm not an adult as part of your personal attacks. Adults don't personally attack each other over a simple difference of opinion like this.

                                          Since you mentioned I never backed up "my side" I'll give my side. I think both sides make good points. As with any contract, you want to read it thoroughly and consult a legal professional to make sure you can live with the terms. As for the webnovel contract, it has pros and cons. The pros are the guaranteed money, the exposure to a large fanbase, ability to still get fan support on the side. The cons are losing the IP and the risk of losing control of the novel. At the end of the day any route one goes has pros and cons; whether that's trying to get something traditionally published, going e-book style through Amazon or other e-book vendors, or blogging and patreoning. I think it's up to each author to decide the route they personally want to go. My only real input in this topic was regarding the legal process and what a company COULD do to an author. That's all.

                                          I hope you have a good day Mr. Sloth and realize I'm not out to attack you or Webnovel.

                                              Aby55
                                              I find it strange that you are a real legal professional discussing a contract but never bothered to explain the difference between De Jure and De Facto. The first thing a legal professional would do when giving advice for a boiler plate company contract would be to investigate the legal precedent regarding the contract to give advice.

                                              What are the standards the company has set when executing this boilerplate contract?

                                              De Facto webnovel has never screwed over an author with the contract, but there are some strange clauses that could affect you De Jure.

                                                  Dan_Ryder Imo there's no point explaining the difference between de jure and de facto in this setting. I'm confused as to why you would bring that up. Usually that distinction is made for things like segregation. The terminology of de facto is usually used when there was a problem with creating something like a contract, corporation, or marriage. Maybe they teach law differently in your country, idk. If you are indeed correct that they've never enforced certain clauses, then that's certainly relevant information. But it is also not relevant to my point.

                                                  You are right that the first thing one would do is to research precedents. But that's if one were hired or writing an article or the like. I'm commenting on a forum. I think there's confusion as well since you mention me commentint on the contract. I didnt even read the contract or talk about any of its clauses. I don't have a client asking me to help with their IP or contract dispute with webnovel. Again, I was simply commenting that in general a company acts as it will and the individual then has to fight back if they dont like it. That's it. I saw someone talking about the legal process and how that would constrain a corporation's actions and I found that analysis did not reflect my understanding. I was not analyzing the contract nor seeking to explain the entirety of international contract law. Nor was I researching who would win a dispute. Im simply talking about the most basic realities of the process.

                                                  Btw if you read my previous reply you'll see I advise prospective authors to consult a legal professional. At that point that legal professional would do the research to see how the contract or similar contracts have been treated and see what the precedents are.

                                                    ThyUnknownSaint heres the links to that reddit post

                                                    MotivatedSloth I'm sorry to bother to ask this especially knowing that the post MNG is referencing to is out of date but what differences are there between the complaints put forth from that proposed contract and the complaints that we currently have here on webnovel about its contract. all the complaints from that post are valid when applied to either site from what I have heard. for instance

                                                    1st copyright: all works on webnovel that are premium are owned by webnovel because to get contacted/ go premium the author has to hand over the copyright.

                                                    2nd on free reading: this site definitely doesn't have the same problem as they do in China with legal pirate sites but it does share the problem of having any revenue produced from ads being taken by webnovel which is unreasonable. luckly they removed ad watching entirely as it really wasn't a good revenue source even when all of it was being taken by webnovel. as noted in your posted https://forum.webnovel.com/d/39823-alternative-options-for-locked-chapters/2

                                                    this site does have an illegal piracy problem but what paid content on the internet doesn't. (I'm shocked at how much those sites do take and how many there are literally every single time I go google for a books fandom page there's a new pirate site there its a serious problem)

                                                    3rd Copyright Revenue Sharing: don't want to get into that can of worms seeing as no one i have seen has brought it up yet and I don't want to get sued. luckily, currently, it doesn't apply to any original works from webnovels but the potial is there if the preconditions are meet.

                                                    mng what do you think of my argument i think it was a good add on to your point.

                                                            Dan_Ryder They are mostly long block paragraphs, but please read them before replying to them rather than imagining what I wrote and then replying to your own imagination. This is the real world, not the one you are imagining in your head. To help you improve and not fall for this straw man fallacy again, please refer to the following site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man. It will help you make a better argument and help you find actually problems with what other people write.

                                                              MotivatedSloth Well argued point. I would just be more wary. It does seem on the surface that a number of these clauses are not worth being enforced by webnovel. And I personally believe you make a decent argument for it. However, it neglects how much pressure can be put onto a signatory to comply with them having a literal signed written agreement on them. It also neglects the fact that sometimes the companies might do things that initially seems illogical and just because you don't have the full picture. Music companies sued some relatively poor individuals for pirating music. It was not cost-effective and I believe it did not help reduce piracy significantly. They still did it though. How can you in all honesty say that another company won't resort to legal action to enforce something even though it costs them more than its worth? Human history is literally littered by bad decisions that almost any idiot could realise was was a mistake but was made anyway. Especially when you are not one of the decision makers who will determine whether webnovel chooses to enforce the clauses they specifically put into their contracts.

                                                              @Aby55's posts imo make several good points that are also worth considering. Me copying what he wrote, I also hope you have a good day and realise that what we write is about making informed decisions with the appropriate information.

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