Webnovel is a money grabbing piece of shit 🤔
You're right; I had remembered notimegamer as the OP, but that's not the case.
Tomoyuki If Webnovel did, in fact, professionally edit and translate their text, then obviously that 500% extra charge is worth it (especially when you compare it to translated Japanese light novels).
No. The japanese light novels don't support your case.
1. The transition from Japanese webnovel to Japanese light novel almost always involves substantial effort from the author. The story is tightened up; minor plot lines and characters that didn't end up being as important as originally planned are removed. It is not just a question of line editing that can be done at the time of the original webnovel writing. Yes, line editing would improve the original webnovel but it doesn't make it publishable as a light novel. This is an issue that affects the entire category of webnovels, and is a reason why direct comparisons against other forms like light novels should be avoided.
2. But even more importantly, the light novel publishers act as a gatekeeper to good stories and good writing. I would guess that less than 1 in a 100 webnovels get published as light novels. Publishers will only invest their editing money in works that they have evidence are good enough. The vast majority of the slush pile is not worth the time and effort to edit and whip into shape for publishing. In the case of translated books there is even two levels of gatekeeping taking place as those folks attempt to translate only the best of the original language light novels.
There is no evidence that if a publisher takes a random Japanese webnovel and spends money on editing it, that it will turn into a good Japanese light novel worth $6 a volume. Especially in the US after translating, we are seeing only the cream of the cream from Viz Media et al.
But you seem to be proposing that if WebNovel pays for professional line-editing, that all of its webnovels will suddenly be equal in quality to this cream of the cream, and thus be worth the prices WebNovel is charging? I think you will agree that's nonsense. But I have no other way to interpret your statements.
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CrispyCritter 1. The transition from Japanese webnovel to Japanese light novel almost always involves substantial effort from the author. The story is tightened up; minor plot lines and characters that didn't end up being as important as originally planned are removed.
Yes, that is what I'm calling for here. If Webnovel wants to sell the webnovels at a similar price, they must put in this substantial effort, tighten up the story, and make it publishable. Did you seriously think I was simply asking for professional line-editing? What do you think the words "professional edit" entail? It's not just simply passing off the story to another editor and expecting him/her to correct all the mistakes and improve the prose. They have to send it back to the author and demand for extensive rewrites as well. It's a two-way thing. It's not simply line-editing, but rewriting the story, making significant changes, improving it - and the editor doesn't do all that himself/herself. Obviously I was calling for substantial effort from the author as well. Otherwise how else are they going to reach the same quality? If the Japanese light novel industry is doing it, then why can't we hold the Chinese novel industry to the same standards?
Or are you just cherry-picking one sentence and ignoring everything else I said? Just, I don't know, to find fault with whatever I say? I was literally talking about quality throughout my entire post, but you decide to just nitpick one sentence and ignore everything else I said about quality and proportionate prices.
CrispyCritter 2. But even more importantly, the light novel publishers act as a gatekeeper to good stories and good writing.
CrispyCritter There is no evidence that if a publisher takes a random Japanese webnovel and spends money on editing it, that it will turn into a good Japanese light novel worth $6 a volume.
Isn't that the same thing for translated works here? Webnovel doesn't simply pick random titles to get translated, they choose the most popular ones (though the process leaves a lot to be desired with the energy stones and machine translations, which is just atrocious). Also, you must be joking if you think all light novels are good stories and good writing. You ever read Fixed Damage and all the revenge stories? Nidome no Yuusha? The Hero shall use darkness to exterminate (or whatever BS title that was)? The Redo of Healer? The Epic Tale of the Forsaken Hero? Or maybe even Isekai Cheat Magician, which isn't revenge but still...pretty awful. Even after professional editing, the end product still comes across as...amateurish, childish and downright bad. But people still purchase them (probably because of the illustrations and wish fulfilment). Gatekeeping? Really? And they're still sold at about 1,200 yen or so, to cover illustrations and production costs.
There are interviews where Japanese publishers admit that most of the webnovel writers at Syousetsuka ni Narou are terrible writers, and they have to pretty much rewrite the stories from the ground up just to get published. Yet they put themselves through the ordeal of rewriting and editing anyway. Yet people still purchase them. Yet you still have the petty, childish and trashy revenge stories with cringeworthy dialogue still being published. The gatekeeping isn't as secure as you appear to think it is.
Nonetheless, the reason why I brought up the web novels to light novels example isn't to compare the quality or the prices - as I repeatedly said, and you keep missing the point over and over again, it is an unfair comparison that misses out a lot in terms of quality - but to compare the length. Because people seem to insist on comparing a single volume composed of several chapters from a former webnovel to an entire webnovel series of over 1,000 chapters. That's the only fair comparison I'm making. Not the quality, not the prices, not the rewrites, not the illustrations. I don't get why you keep missing this point over and over again.
Basically notimegamer and Maekellen said: Why am I paying $150 for 1,000 chapters when a single volume of another light novel series cost $7?
Me: You do realize that the light novel volume you just compared 1,000 chapters worth of a webnovel series to is composed of several chapters from a former webnovel series, and not the whole thing?
That is the only reason why I'm comparing webnovel series to light novels. The length and quantity. Not the price, not the quality, not anything else. I don't know how much simpler I have to break this down to you to understand. The single sentence you cherry-picked was simply an example of how much effort and resources they need to invest to match the prices of their competitors, and not because I literally think the solution is as simple as professional line-editing (in fact, I never specified line-editing - I generalized professional editing as an entire process that includes rewriting, cutting, rearranging, making stuff more consistent, etc.) or because I really think the current Chinese webnovels are comparable to professionally published Japanese light novels. That's just one of the many steps of the writing process to raise a story to acceptable quality. It was meant more to be an example than a direct comparison, something you would have understood if you didn't simply cherry-pick and quote me out of context.
CrispyCritter But you seem to be proposing that if WebNovel pays for professional line-editing, that all of its webnovels will suddenly be equal in quality to this cream of the cream, and thus be worth the prices WebNovel is charging?
Again, not just professional line-editing, but substantial changes and efforts on the part of the author, illustrations, and a lot of other changes. As you pointed out, this isn't simply something that professional line-editing can fix. I don't know how you define quality, but I'm sure quality isn't something that happens simply because of professional line-editing alone.
Also, you miss what I said. Probably because cherry-picking benefits whatever agenda you might have, eh?
I am not suggesting they sell at light novel prices just because they suddenly have professional line-editing (improving the quality of a webnovel is so much more than professional line-editing, by the way), but match their prices to the quality they are currently selling at. But if they want to sell at light novel prices, then they must do everything that the Japanese light novel industry does - which includes rewriting, one-on-one consultations with the author (maybe even tutoring or mentoring), investing more resources, illustrations, and a whole lot of other things that go into the writing process. If they don't want to invest those resources and improve the quality, then lower the bloody prices.
Seriously, though, it sounds like you're clutching at straws and finding fault with everything I say just for the sake of it. I said they should try to reach the same quality as professionally published novels if they want to sell at similar prices, and you respond by cherry-picking one of my sentences and nitpicking, "but Japanese light novels are only of this quality because they do X and Y, yet I can only interpret you as saying Chinese webnovels will reach the same quality through professional line-editing alone." Like, how did you even come to that conclusion? I didn't even mention line editing specifically. You assumed that on your own. Couldn't you have logically concluded that I was proposing that they do the same X and Y editorial stuff that the Japanese light novel industry did? Why are you so desperate to find fault with everything I say?
Tomoyuki just rest man, it's useless explaining stuff to them. Forums mostly here for Venting at this point for them.
Grand_Void_Daoist
And what am I supposed to do ? Pat the corporation on the head for squeezing money or something? Of course I’m going to roast the shit out of it and call it trash. Because the corporation squeezes money but the translation quality still drops the novels get dropped fake reviews and shit like My vampire system is on the top of the list.
Grand_Void_Daoist I think that's a good idea. Thanks.
I'm so disappointed that we have to keep buying coins to read the books. It gives you a choice to download free chapters but it seems that's a waste of time. It costs a lot to continue reading a whole book. Why cant it just be a few chapters?
Yes heaven forbid you buy a luxury good from a luxury service. Who knew that exchanging money for products/services was still a reasonable idea in this age!
You know what you should do?
For free reading there's this magical location in most cities... it's called a library. For likely a small one time fee you too can read freely if you lack the money to indulge this medium!
Honestly, they should give discounts for bundles, especially for older stories or already completed webnovel series.
Tomoyuki they already do for completed novels now. 50 coins for 7 days of free reading
Grand_Void_Daoist Oh, nice! That's awesome, I didn't know about that.
Misguided_Rooster
Lol
Arthritis again
Don't give up. There's still some good original novels. I was a reader for like 3 years before becoming an author, so I know what you mean.
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Bahahahaha, premium books that is so riddled with grammar errors that reader's are better off reading an MTL. Simple mistakes with pronouns that makes reading it utterly mind-numbing. Yet people are premium buying it, which just blows my mind away. Oh well, if other people can believe that taking a vaccine can make their blood magnetic, I guess paying for substandard work is expected?
Then comes the ads even for fanfiction, that takes a huge pair of cojones to do. That would mean those fanfiction writers would have to start paying royalties to the original authors since the platform they used is profiting from it. DAMN!!! Maybe tencent knows they have enough clout to be overlooked.
Anyways, as I've said before, for people that have no patience whatsoever this site is a money sink with no end. For the many others it's fine. If you really want to support an author, with how online things are nowadays, wouldn't it be easier to directly support them? Also, if you want to stop webnovel from doing corporate stuff like this, why don't you people gather and start a free for all reading site? Buy royalties and post it in your own app or site. We readers will genuflect to your downright righteousness, I for one will.
PS: WTH happened with the webnovel app? Before, it's such a treat to read in the app because of its low battery consumption. Nowadays it drains like I'm playing an open world RPG game.
Grand_Void_Daoist Beats the writers swappimg positive reviews. Let's be honest here, WN really has nothing left to praise (from a customer standpoint).
Darth_Xiane Valid point except we are being charged luxury prices for substandard goods and non-existent services.
CrispyCritter Not to mention that that 288 dollars you spent probably only what I wanna say maybe 50-60 of it went to the author.
CrispyCritter But you seem to be proposing that if WebNovel pays for professional line-editing, that all of its webnovels will suddenly be equal in quality to this cream of the cream, and thus be worth the prices WebNovel is charging? I think you will agree that's nonsense. But I have no other way to interpret your statements.
Webnovels editors have 1600 webnovels they have to manage per person, and more coming in every day. Some of their newly hired authors are nine year olds that had to get their moms and dads to sign away their human rights (idiot parents honestly) and they can't even be paid a decent wage by webnovel. I doubt webnovel is going to let go of any of the money they are hoarding for themselves. They steal from the authors. They overwork and don't even treat their authors and their editors as human beings. I wouldn't hold your breath on the professional line editor thing. XD lol.