Vam_V

Ahh, we disagree… you know what that means! Now we can have a civilized discussion about this while respecting each other’s opinions.

It’s true that anything can be written well, but I find these villains to usually be generic with not a lot of thought put into them. I much prefer villains who I understand their logic even if I don’t agree with it. Sounds like your “they need to live being evil” is getting very close what I would call a logical reason for their actions.

If they just want to see the world burn, and the author tells us why, boom! The villain can now be interesting. He was bullied so he wants to be powerful and take control of other people through force—okay this is logical even though I will never be sympathetic towards it or in agreement.

An example of what I like is all of the villains in Batman. Usually a Batman villain personifies a philosophy that Batman doesn’t agree with. Batman has to beat them and keep in moral code intact to preserve his idea of justice.

The joker seems evil for evils sake, but he wants to prove that heros are hypocritical and spread anarchy. Sometimes he tried to do things so evil that Batman kills him because Batman believes killing is wrong. Therefore, if Batman kills the Joker the joker wins. Other villains listed below off the top of my head:

Scarecrow = controlling people through fear (Batman uses fear to save people and set them free)

Penguin = Greed and money over people (Batman is a billionaire that uses his fortune to fight crime)

Bane = controlling people through force/power

Etc.

Tomoyuki

Yes. Just one example of the many types of “puppy kicking villains.” If there is no good reason behind the villains actions, then the whole story suffers.

        shadowdrake27
        Hum... yeah, I got that.

        Batman definitely has an awesome villain's gallery.

        But the thing I was talking about is not logical but in fact emotional.

        They enjoy being jerks, so they do evil stuff, in an entertaining way that is enjoyable to watch.

        That by itself can make for some very fun villains.

            Vam_V

            Yeah, that’s not as fun for me… I’m glad you enjoy those villains though.

                Vam_V I think Shadowdrake27 isn't referring to villains who do evil stuff because they enjoy being evil, but villains who do evil stuff just so the protagonists are justified in beating them up or killing them. Normally these villains don't do evil stuff because they enjoy being evil, but simply because the plot demands it, and to give the protagonists an excuse to slaughter them in the most exaggerated fashion.

                There is absolutely nothing wrong with developing a villain who enjoys being evil and is psychopathic, but if he's there to only appear for a couple of chapters to attempt to rape the protagonist's lover or try to kill him for no reason other than because he's lustful or greedy, and then gets curbstomped by the protagonist in a page (or panel), then...frankly, those are terrible villains and shoddy writing.

                    Tomoyuki
                    Yeah... that was definitely not the kind of villain I was thinking.

                        Tomoyuki

                        Correct. Emotional reasoning can still make a villain good. They can also just be insane or find pleasure in hurting others. Just don’t like them to only be evil as a plot device.

                          I can see that you guys want to continue. Go on, no ones watching. No need to hold back.

                          SlaveOfTheLord

                          Ending it by doing your mum. Shame, someone already did it. How about a new trope... there's a war, but to decide the winner... each side need to do their enemies mom while listening to ray william johsnon - doing your mom.

                          God I'm very good at creating Pure Original tropes

                            And this is a reply for the current discussion

                            Btw I don't like trope about ceo stuff, op character that can do anything, gods (except god of doing your mom), going to new body/life 'cus their current life suck ass (dude if your life sucks don't commit suicide in the story, go out with a bang... be a serial killer, arsonist, etc. dying alone feel sucks 'hur duurrr my life is boring... I'm going to kill myself hur duurrr..' then the dude transported or something happened, so he live in a world of harem then screwed all of the girls, committing countless acts like a certified sex offender does. Dude, steal a plane and do couple of stunts before crash diving into a forest and burn it to the ground). If you create your character to be murdered, have a big accident... example; 9/11, buried alive, tortured by quentin tarantino gimp, crushed by a tower. don't die after getting shot or having a car accident.

                            There i just create the greatest 'going to new life/body trope, hope you can frickin enjoy it. Hope you have a good day :D

                              I take it back, Tim Curry made all movies good from his mere presence

                                Now, this mostly occur in Bl transmigration books. I am so tired of seeing mc transmigrates and instantly classify every person as a 2D Character. It is vexing.

                                  Dzeeck ude if your life sucks don't commit suicide in the story, go out with a bang... be a serial killer, arsonist, etc.

                                  There are literally Japanese isekai stories about this...about people who become serial killers to take revenge for their raped and murdered childhood friend/sister, get sentenced to death, and after their execution (and awesome headlines in the news), they get reincarnated into another world where they can put their serial killer skills to good use.

                                      Erica_Abakah You don't need to ignore tropes. They are there for a reason. In every generation, there are gonna be people, who just want to read a good prince goes to the rescue of the princess type story. If you try to write without using tropes, you'll run into a few problems:
                                      1, It's really hard to figure out a story, that wouldn't work accordingly: Say you're main characters are about to assault the villains, in their hidden lair. What would happen there? What would go wrong, go right, etc? If you don't use tropes in that situation, you'll still operate based on those tropes. Either the bad guys will win, or the good ones. If you end that bit with casualties on both sides, it probably will be too realistic for [MOST] people to relate.
                                      2, You'll have to take your readers into consideration. They'll be expecting something, and if that expectation will not come true, it'll cause some issues later down the line. Always ask yourself: What do your readers expect? And in that, think what you would personally expect.
                                      3, Tropes will always come true at some point. There's not a single story out there without any tropes. Even if you just have a well written character, say a side character, who is the main characters coworker. Let's go with her being a woman, she just lives her life, does her stuff, and occasionally show up in the story, whenever she'd logically show up. If you want to put a twist on her character, let's say she shows up mostly when it's a corporate celebration, like a dinner. The twist would most likely be something like her being a a really bad drunk, eat a lot of food (more than what you'd expect), but even if she's just entire cultured, and a normal human being, at some point that would fit into a certain trope.
                                      4, Tropes are created by the plot. You can't just write a story, without thinking about it ina generic way. Say, you're creating a fantasy story. Let's say it's not a transmigration story. How would you start? Who's the main character? What would come to mind? I'd say, for me at least, it'd definitely either be a rags-to-riches type character, or a prince, of sorts (I mostly think in writing ML stories, I'm bad at writing legit female characters lol). Who's the 'best friend' type character? Is there one? If there is, congrats, that's a trope. If there isn't, well, it's just a lack of trope in one way. There'd probably be another character taking this one's place.

                                      TL;DR: You can't write without tropes, they're essential in stories, both as a plot device, as well as to create the plot. Characters by themselves can be tropes. Settings can be tropes. Everything at the end of the day is a trope. Also, think of your readers expeectations.

                                      Benny Manatee signing out.

                                          Benny_Manatee Uh, let me look for them.

                                          First one is: Fukushuu Kansuisha no Jinsei Nishuume Isekaitan - that's the one where his sister was raped and murdered, and he hunted them down for 5 years.

                                          I'm sorry, I can't remember the title of the second one where he avenges his childhood friend who got raped and murdered by killng all of her rapists and murderers and gets executed, but it's one where he gets reborn in another world where all the men have gone crazy (basically turned into zombies) and go around raping women. To death.

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