To add another few to the list, these are things that bother me in stories:

  • Puppy Kicking Villains

This is a term a friend of mine came up with for a villain that doesn’t follow logic. They aren’t interesting and just do evil things because they are supposed to be evil. Sort of like the villain that’s wants to blow up the world and you think, “Wait, wouldn’t he die too?”

These villains are so Generic and boring. They are unrelatable and simply plot devices. The best villains have a real goal and beliefs similar to a hero. Something like, “If we conquer the entire world then there will be no more wars!” The beat villains are ones that when you learn WHY they do that they do you understand and can relate. Usually they are just going about accomplishing their goal in the wrong way.

  • Weak characters

Those characters that don’t follow a consistent code or behavioral pattern. They just kind of do whatever is needed to advance the plot. Perhaps they always have the right skill/tool for the job for no reason. Sometimes they randomly know information that is critical for no reason. Other times they are doing things inconsistent with their character traits for no reason… etc… etc…

  • This is Fantasy, so Logic doesn’t apply!

Stories that make no sense and are full of plot holes. Sometimes they make rules for something (like magic) but break them whenever they want. “You can’t cast a spell without an incantation… unless you are the main character!”

These are hard because the lack of internal logic makes it hard to actually imagine the world they live in. I want to be able to believe this world is real, so stop making up rules and not following them!

  • Accidental Fourth Wall Breaks

I’m not talking about good/intentional fourth wall breaks. This is strictly when an author breaks the fourth wall without meaning to or when it doesn’t make sense. An example is when a narrator says something like, “Don't you think?” Or “Wouldn’t it be cool?”

Who are you talking to Mr. Author? The characters can’t hear the narrator, so you have to be talking directly to me. This calls attention to the fact that this is just a story and breaks immersion. STOP RUINING MY FANTASY WORLD BY TALKING TO ME AS A BODY-LESS NARRATOR.

Other examples are below:

“You can see…”

“You know…”

Anything with “you” in it unless the story is specifically written in second person

“It’s hard to believe, but…”

“You will never guess…”

Etc.

    shadowdrake27
    Well, I will have to disagree with you on the Puppy Kicking Villains, they can be quite entertaining.

    My favorite example is an actual puppy kicker, Dio Brando.

    You don't need all the villains to have comprehensible or sympathetic motivations, some can just be evil for evil's sake.

    But there is a little secret to them, they need to enjoy being evil. If you make a character who is simply filled with joy by being EVIL, he can be very fun to watch.

        shadowdrake27 Puppy Kicking Villains

        This is a term a friend of mine came up with for a villain that doesn’t follow logic. They aren’t interesting and just do evil things because they are supposed to be evil. Sort of like the villain that’s wants to blow up the world and you think, “Wait, wouldn’t he die too?”

        Yeah, like the arrogant young masters who pursue a married woman just because the main character needs an excuse to kick their asses. I mean, what logical person goes after a married woman, tries to convince her to divorce her husband (who's supposedly trash) so that he can marry her instead of, you know, logically pursuing another woman who's still single?

        It's one thing if the wife has an affair with a young master in secret, but no, we can't have that happen because she only belongs to the main character, am I right? /s

            Vam_V

            Ahh, we disagree… you know what that means! Now we can have a civilized discussion about this while respecting each other’s opinions.

            It’s true that anything can be written well, but I find these villains to usually be generic with not a lot of thought put into them. I much prefer villains who I understand their logic even if I don’t agree with it. Sounds like your “they need to live being evil” is getting very close what I would call a logical reason for their actions.

            If they just want to see the world burn, and the author tells us why, boom! The villain can now be interesting. He was bullied so he wants to be powerful and take control of other people through force—okay this is logical even though I will never be sympathetic towards it or in agreement.

            An example of what I like is all of the villains in Batman. Usually a Batman villain personifies a philosophy that Batman doesn’t agree with. Batman has to beat them and keep in moral code intact to preserve his idea of justice.

            The joker seems evil for evils sake, but he wants to prove that heros are hypocritical and spread anarchy. Sometimes he tried to do things so evil that Batman kills him because Batman believes killing is wrong. Therefore, if Batman kills the Joker the joker wins. Other villains listed below off the top of my head:

            Scarecrow = controlling people through fear (Batman uses fear to save people and set them free)

            Penguin = Greed and money over people (Batman is a billionaire that uses his fortune to fight crime)

            Bane = controlling people through force/power

            Etc.

            Tomoyuki

            Yes. Just one example of the many types of “puppy kicking villains.” If there is no good reason behind the villains actions, then the whole story suffers.

                  shadowdrake27
                  Hum... yeah, I got that.

                  Batman definitely has an awesome villain's gallery.

                  But the thing I was talking about is not logical but in fact emotional.

                  They enjoy being jerks, so they do evil stuff, in an entertaining way that is enjoyable to watch.

                  That by itself can make for some very fun villains.

                      Vam_V

                      Yeah, that’s not as fun for me… I’m glad you enjoy those villains though.

                          Vam_V I think Shadowdrake27 isn't referring to villains who do evil stuff because they enjoy being evil, but villains who do evil stuff just so the protagonists are justified in beating them up or killing them. Normally these villains don't do evil stuff because they enjoy being evil, but simply because the plot demands it, and to give the protagonists an excuse to slaughter them in the most exaggerated fashion.

                          There is absolutely nothing wrong with developing a villain who enjoys being evil and is psychopathic, but if he's there to only appear for a couple of chapters to attempt to rape the protagonist's lover or try to kill him for no reason other than because he's lustful or greedy, and then gets curbstomped by the protagonist in a page (or panel), then...frankly, those are terrible villains and shoddy writing.

                              Tomoyuki
                              Yeah... that was definitely not the kind of villain I was thinking.

                                  Tomoyuki

                                  Correct. Emotional reasoning can still make a villain good. They can also just be insane or find pleasure in hurting others. Just don’t like them to only be evil as a plot device.

                                    I can see that you guys want to continue. Go on, no ones watching. No need to hold back.

                                    SlaveOfTheLord

                                    Ending it by doing your mum. Shame, someone already did it. How about a new trope... there's a war, but to decide the winner... each side need to do their enemies mom while listening to ray william johsnon - doing your mom.

                                    God I'm very good at creating Pure Original tropes

                                      And this is a reply for the current discussion

                                      Btw I don't like trope about ceo stuff, op character that can do anything, gods (except god of doing your mom), going to new body/life 'cus their current life suck ass (dude if your life sucks don't commit suicide in the story, go out with a bang... be a serial killer, arsonist, etc. dying alone feel sucks 'hur duurrr my life is boring... I'm going to kill myself hur duurrr..' then the dude transported or something happened, so he live in a world of harem then screwed all of the girls, committing countless acts like a certified sex offender does. Dude, steal a plane and do couple of stunts before crash diving into a forest and burn it to the ground). If you create your character to be murdered, have a big accident... example; 9/11, buried alive, tortured by quentin tarantino gimp, crushed by a tower. don't die after getting shot or having a car accident.

                                      There i just create the greatest 'going to new life/body trope, hope you can frickin enjoy it. Hope you have a good day :D

                                        I take it back, Tim Curry made all movies good from his mere presence

                                          Now, this mostly occur in Bl transmigration books. I am so tired of seeing mc transmigrates and instantly classify every person as a 2D Character. It is vexing.

                                            Dzeeck ude if your life sucks don't commit suicide in the story, go out with a bang... be a serial killer, arsonist, etc.

                                            There are literally Japanese isekai stories about this...about people who become serial killers to take revenge for their raped and murdered childhood friend/sister, get sentenced to death, and after their execution (and awesome headlines in the news), they get reincarnated into another world where they can put their serial killer skills to good use.

                                                Erica_Abakah You don't need to ignore tropes. They are there for a reason. In every generation, there are gonna be people, who just want to read a good prince goes to the rescue of the princess type story. If you try to write without using tropes, you'll run into a few problems:
                                                1, It's really hard to figure out a story, that wouldn't work accordingly: Say you're main characters are about to assault the villains, in their hidden lair. What would happen there? What would go wrong, go right, etc? If you don't use tropes in that situation, you'll still operate based on those tropes. Either the bad guys will win, or the good ones. If you end that bit with casualties on both sides, it probably will be too realistic for [MOST] people to relate.
                                                2, You'll have to take your readers into consideration. They'll be expecting something, and if that expectation will not come true, it'll cause some issues later down the line. Always ask yourself: What do your readers expect? And in that, think what you would personally expect.
                                                3, Tropes will always come true at some point. There's not a single story out there without any tropes. Even if you just have a well written character, say a side character, who is the main characters coworker. Let's go with her being a woman, she just lives her life, does her stuff, and occasionally show up in the story, whenever she'd logically show up. If you want to put a twist on her character, let's say she shows up mostly when it's a corporate celebration, like a dinner. The twist would most likely be something like her being a a really bad drunk, eat a lot of food (more than what you'd expect), but even if she's just entire cultured, and a normal human being, at some point that would fit into a certain trope.
                                                4, Tropes are created by the plot. You can't just write a story, without thinking about it ina generic way. Say, you're creating a fantasy story. Let's say it's not a transmigration story. How would you start? Who's the main character? What would come to mind? I'd say, for me at least, it'd definitely either be a rags-to-riches type character, or a prince, of sorts (I mostly think in writing ML stories, I'm bad at writing legit female characters lol). Who's the 'best friend' type character? Is there one? If there is, congrats, that's a trope. If there isn't, well, it's just a lack of trope in one way. There'd probably be another character taking this one's place.

                                                TL;DR: You can't write without tropes, they're essential in stories, both as a plot device, as well as to create the plot. Characters by themselves can be tropes. Settings can be tropes. Everything at the end of the day is a trope. Also, think of your readers expeectations.

                                                Benny Manatee signing out.

                                                    Benny_Manatee Uh, let me look for them.

                                                    First one is: Fukushuu Kansuisha no Jinsei Nishuume Isekaitan - that's the one where his sister was raped and murdered, and he hunted them down for 5 years.

                                                    I'm sorry, I can't remember the title of the second one where he avenges his childhood friend who got raped and murdered by killng all of her rapists and murderers and gets executed, but it's one where he gets reborn in another world where all the men have gone crazy (basically turned into zombies) and go around raping women. To death.

                                                        Benny_Manatee That's what I thought too, but the poor guy throws up whenever a woman makes a move on him (apparently he's too attached to his childhood friend or something). If I ever find it again, I'll let you know.

                                                        Dzeeck Is there a story about dying in 9/11? if not, i'm going to create it

                                                        I dunno, for one thing that's an American event, not Japanese, so...

                                                            Mai0414 I wish she become a doctor (a real one, not a fake one), no, they can become only actresses and models.......Nothing else. It seems if you a woman in China, the only good jobs are the ones where you can say to be beautiful 🤢

                                                                scarlett1414 Oh, God...I hate that too. There was one story I liked where the female lead is a doctor, and I'm glad the manhua version ended that way (I think it was CEO's Sudden Proposal or Flash Marriage Deep Love, depending on who translated it). However, the readers of the novel told me that the doctor female lead for no reason decided to switch careers later in the story and become a designer. Like what the f?! How does one switch from being a doctor to a designer? It's like all these CEO authors have some sort of obsession with not just CEOs, but the entertainment industry.

                                                                    Harem, isekai, video game leveling up type of power system, and overpowered main characters, it's amazing how common these type of series are to like 90% of readers on this site and any other.

                                                                      Mai0414 Novels with too much smut. Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with such content. Its just when every few chapters there is a 5 chapter long smut scene, it gets old rather quickly. If you can't seem to conjure up any real content, then maybe you should be writing porn instead of a novel... JS

                                                                        Tomoyuki That happened?! WTF?! Do you really think any real life doctor would one day switch careers for absolutely no reason after spending more than a decade of study, med school, and residency on top of a student debt of more than 50k!? Hell no! They would absolutely not do that! The Fck!? Where is the logic in that?!

                                                                            Mai0414 I know, right? I think the author of that webnovel needs a reality check.

                                                                            The manhua was so much better. The ending fell off a little, but the manhua improved on most of the characters and didn't bother with the horrible drama that the original webnovel was known for (divorce, 5-year timeskip, switching from being a doctor to a designer, running away overseas, murder, kidnapping, etc.).

                                                                              alernatetext

                                                                              Yo. What trope is this? I WANT TO READ IT 🔥

                                                                                The trope i hate the most is DragonBall syndrome...

                                                                                X is recognized as the strongest entity in the land which everyone recognizes.

                                                                                Until you leave it.

                                                                                Then Y is the strongest on the planet which every also recognizes.

                                                                                Until you leave it.

                                                                                Z is the strongest in the solar system, which everybody knows, its common knowledge that is never before mentioned.

                                                                                The question is... if everyone knew about Y and Z how the fark was X ever considered the strongest? And NOBODY brings Y and Z up in X's region because... reasons. But everybody knew about them.

                                                                                  Darth_Xiane

                                                                                  This is called power creep. Once goku beats someone, they have to invent a more powerful villain or the story ends. It happens a lot. The plot looks like this:

                                                                                  • MC is weak or average

                                                                                  • Villain needs to be stopped

                                                                                  • MC randomly gets new power or does a small “training arc”

                                                                                  • MC beats down villain in like 30 seconds

                                                                                  • MC is strongest in universe

                                                                                  • New villain shows up and beats MC

                                                                                  • MC randomly gets stronger or trains for about 5 more minutes

                                                                                  • repeat forever

                                                                                    Coming across a comment on Disqus, I just remembered another trope I really, really hate.

                                                                                    Aphrodisiacs. Or situations where the protagonist and a beautiful woman are forced to do dual cultivation (sex) in order to survive. It can be excessive qi and their meridians are about to expode, or some stupid gu, or cure for some poison, or to give the qi to an injured party to repair his/her meridians, but come on. Often it's just used as an excuse to justify the male protagonist getting laid with a beautiful heroine and adding her to his harem. Worse, he often ends up raping her (because aphrodisiac) and she somehow falls in love with him because...why, exactly? Because he declares that he will take responsibility or he randomly becomes strong later? So being strong justifies rape? What the f?

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