Dark_Scholars That's pretty much every son-in-law story in a nutshell. I am Han San Qian. Dad the Strongest God of War. Strongest Son-in-law. Ultimate Son-in-law. Abandoned Son-in-law. Ultimate Abandoned Young Master. Son-in-law Above Them All.
I mean, at this point they are pretty much copying each other.
The cold and abusive ML trope gives female readers a sense of entitlement and fake security, so its quite popular.
These days, abuse is so common that some women can't fight back. So, they wanted a kind of release. They wanted to feel confident. Safe and secure. Appreciated.
Imagine it, someone who's head over heels for you, wishing to give you everything, and wanting you for himself.
Its cringe, but some people can't help finding it attractive.
I like it a bit if the person they love doesn't take advantage of them, where they'll feel overwhelmed and useless instead, so they're gonna try to be strong and useful, but....
If it was abuse or too much simping, like, no self-love at all, I'll knock on the author's door at 3AM with a knife.
I forgot to mention this in the last post, but those same son-in-law stories also have one trope that I find utterly ridiculous. Every arrogant young master or other male character is pursuing the protagonist's wife. And protagonist's wife's family wants her to divorce the guy, and even though she agrees that he's trash, she finds some excuse not to divorce him (uh, what?).
I mean, what's wrong with everyone? What kind of self-respecting man chases after a married woman? They are young masters of rich and powerful families, they can literally have any women they want, but they're desperate enough to pursue a woman who is already married? How does that even make sense?
Villarico_Heaven96 Yeah, My Paranoid Lover - also known as CEO Above, Me Below - is one of the worst I've read. The poor female lead gets kidnapped, raped, threatened, abused...but somehow she ends up falling in love with the male lead. Who's apparently supposed to be suffering from paranoid personality disorder. How does that justify him committing crimes in broad daylight? He gets away with it because he's rich, powerful and handsome? What the f? If this is another story (probably a son-in-law story or urban cultivation), this guy would probably be the main villain.
But somehow this sort of abuse is popular among the readers? Really?
Tomoyuki
Looks like writing a full novel cussing the hell out of them wasn't enough to extinguish your fire.
SlaveOfTheLord I mean, the thread starter asked, so...why not?
I'm going to start a new trope, and it's about 'doin ur mum'
The most original trope in the whole world
Dzeeck
Have you read 'The Lord's Empire' ?? The MC is one of those who wouldn't mind doing it to his mom. Thank the lord she's dead.
shadowdrake27 I'll read it. Just to spite Mister Rooster over here.
And it sounds like a genuinly funny cliché trope-ridden stupid story
Yeah it would be a train wreck… one of those “it’s so bad that it’s good” type of books.
To add another few to the list, these are things that bother me in stories:
This is a term a friend of mine came up with for a villain that doesn’t follow logic. They aren’t interesting and just do evil things because they are supposed to be evil. Sort of like the villain that’s wants to blow up the world and you think, “Wait, wouldn’t he die too?”
These villains are so Generic and boring. They are unrelatable and simply plot devices. The best villains have a real goal and beliefs similar to a hero. Something like, “If we conquer the entire world then there will be no more wars!” The beat villains are ones that when you learn WHY they do that they do you understand and can relate. Usually they are just going about accomplishing their goal in the wrong way.
Those characters that don’t follow a consistent code or behavioral pattern. They just kind of do whatever is needed to advance the plot. Perhaps they always have the right skill/tool for the job for no reason. Sometimes they randomly know information that is critical for no reason. Other times they are doing things inconsistent with their character traits for no reason… etc… etc…
Stories that make no sense and are full of plot holes. Sometimes they make rules for something (like magic) but break them whenever they want. “You can’t cast a spell without an incantation… unless you are the main character!”
These are hard because the lack of internal logic makes it hard to actually imagine the world they live in. I want to be able to believe this world is real, so stop making up rules and not following them!
I’m not talking about good/intentional fourth wall breaks. This is strictly when an author breaks the fourth wall without meaning to or when it doesn’t make sense. An example is when a narrator says something like, “Don't you think?” Or “Wouldn’t it be cool?”
Who are you talking to Mr. Author? The characters can’t hear the narrator, so you have to be talking directly to me. This calls attention to the fact that this is just a story and breaks immersion. STOP RUINING MY FANTASY WORLD BY TALKING TO ME AS A BODY-LESS NARRATOR.
Other examples are below:
“You can see…”
“You know…”
Anything with “you” in it unless the story is specifically written in second person
“It’s hard to believe, but…”
“You will never guess…”
Etc.
shadowdrake27
Well, I will have to disagree with you on the Puppy Kicking Villains, they can be quite entertaining.
My favorite example is an actual puppy kicker, Dio Brando.
You don't need all the villains to have comprehensible or sympathetic motivations, some can just be evil for evil's sake.
But there is a little secret to them, they need to enjoy being evil. If you make a character who is simply filled with joy by being EVIL, he can be very fun to watch.
shadowdrake27 Puppy Kicking Villains
This is a term a friend of mine came up with for a villain that doesn’t follow logic. They aren’t interesting and just do evil things because they are supposed to be evil. Sort of like the villain that’s wants to blow up the world and you think, “Wait, wouldn’t he die too?”
Yeah, like the arrogant young masters who pursue a married woman just because the main character needs an excuse to kick their asses. I mean, what logical person goes after a married woman, tries to convince her to divorce her husband (who's supposedly trash) so that he can marry her instead of, you know, logically pursuing another woman who's still single?
It's one thing if the wife has an affair with a young master in secret, but no, we can't have that happen because she only belongs to the main character, am I right? /s
Ahh, we disagree… you know what that means! Now we can have a civilized discussion about this while respecting each other’s opinions.
It’s true that anything can be written well, but I find these villains to usually be generic with not a lot of thought put into them. I much prefer villains who I understand their logic even if I don’t agree with it. Sounds like your “they need to live being evil” is getting very close what I would call a logical reason for their actions.
If they just want to see the world burn, and the author tells us why, boom! The villain can now be interesting. He was bullied so he wants to be powerful and take control of other people through force—okay this is logical even though I will never be sympathetic towards it or in agreement.
An example of what I like is all of the villains in Batman. Usually a Batman villain personifies a philosophy that Batman doesn’t agree with. Batman has to beat them and keep in moral code intact to preserve his idea of justice.
The joker seems evil for evils sake, but he wants to prove that heros are hypocritical and spread anarchy. Sometimes he tried to do things so evil that Batman kills him because Batman believes killing is wrong. Therefore, if Batman kills the Joker the joker wins. Other villains listed below off the top of my head:
Scarecrow = controlling people through fear (Batman uses fear to save people and set them free)
Penguin = Greed and money over people (Batman is a billionaire that uses his fortune to fight crime)
Bane = controlling people through force/power
Etc.
Yes. Just one example of the many types of “puppy kicking villains.” If there is no good reason behind the villains actions, then the whole story suffers.
shadowdrake27
Hum... yeah, I got that.
Batman definitely has an awesome villain's gallery.
But the thing I was talking about is not logical but in fact emotional.
They enjoy being jerks, so they do evil stuff, in an entertaining way that is enjoyable to watch.
That by itself can make for some very fun villains.
Yeah, that’s not as fun for me… I’m glad you enjoy those villains though.
Vam_V I think Shadowdrake27 isn't referring to villains who do evil stuff because they enjoy being evil, but villains who do evil stuff just so the protagonists are justified in beating them up or killing them. Normally these villains don't do evil stuff because they enjoy being evil, but simply because the plot demands it, and to give the protagonists an excuse to slaughter them in the most exaggerated fashion.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with developing a villain who enjoys being evil and is psychopathic, but if he's there to only appear for a couple of chapters to attempt to rape the protagonist's lover or try to kill him for no reason other than because he's lustful or greedy, and then gets curbstomped by the protagonist in a page (or panel), then...frankly, those are terrible villains and shoddy writing.
Correct. Emotional reasoning can still make a villain good. They can also just be insane or find pleasure in hurting others. Just don’t like them to only be evil as a plot device.
I can see that you guys want to continue. Go on, no ones watching. No need to hold back.
