• Diss

  • ORIGINAL AUTHORS: Something all of you need to know.

Yesterday I was reading a novel that fascinates me a lot, but I found a disturbing chapter and it was nothing more and nothing less than some terms that has the contract that is offered to the ORIGINAL novels. Well, as I had it open I decided to read it and for my bad fortune that was like a rock sent from the underworld, every time I continued reading those rocks they became an incessant rain I thought it was showering hail, but it was rocks. The contract is a torture that not even hell, and I told myself how this possible and I regretted what already has established contracts to all of them I wish my sincere condolences and gratitude.

This maybe be delete by MOD......I uses my second account to write this...i maybe get lock or banned.

Here I leave the terms:

  1. First 200k words are free

  2. When you sign, they have the licensing rights to your novel so they can sell it anywhere.

  3. If you earn under $200, they do not have to pay you.

  4. If you earn over $200, they can delay any payment for up to 3 months.

  5. While under contract, if they ask you to do a book signing in China/Ph etc, then you must attend at your own expense.

  6. While contracted, they can tell you "suggestions" on how to make your story better for the readers (They tell you what to write).

  7. While contracted, they can hire someone else to write instead of you.

  8. If you can not comply with their "suggestions" they have the right to terminate your contract.

  9. If terminated, you must pay back ALL the money you've earned while under contract + any damage they foresee to charge you with.

  10. If terminated, they will try to get the copyright of your novel so they can sell it anywhere with 100% profit.

  11. All sales/ss/ad revenue will be split 50/50 with you and Webnovel.

  12. They have other charges too, so you'll really end up with about 30% of the profit, then if you've got editor/artist that you've got to pay, will become much less.

  13. All ss revenue will be for paying ss only, any free will not generate any money for you.

  14. This works in China!

    NinjaScroll it's a SLAVE contract. Wow, I really didn't realize that WN/Qidian would be this oppressive towards its people. Fostered by greed, it's no wonder that all I read in this forum are DISSES. Novels here are basically hostages.

      Wow, this is horrendous. Absolutelty no excuse for such a contract to even exist. Failure to change ones story to fit WNs ideas gives them the right to terminate contract, take back past wages, and gives all rights to wn?

      Please tell me this isnt right or is just a fluke. I am unable to even accept that this is real.

      Well, while I am not sure about the authenticity of this post, it really does sound disadvantageous for the writer. But well, different country, different standards.
      Money reigns the world, even if you got to hand over your soul/rights :p

      this is real i saw this in others novel...

      If terminated, you must pay back ALL the money you've earned while under contract + any damage they foresee to charge you with.

      WTF...this is the most dangerous part i ever read.....

        Dr_Zombie I would not link such, so webnovel does not shut it down... but I can honestly say that such is not the only chapter posted that says such.;,;.

            DeJeL It is their own fault for posting it. Not my problem if they get shut down.

              Anyway, this is a quote from @Alemillach (Author of Last Wish System) from a comment on this: https://www.webnovel.com/book/10678377306098705/31268052968461157/Alternate-World-Online/'Contract'

              I am tired of seeing this type of information, so I obtained permission to clarify things about the contract because the information here is incorrect. Moreover, I asked, and Webnovel didn't send a contract to this author, so I don't know from where did he obtain such a fake contract.
              The contracts needed to be read well because they are easy to misunderstand clarifying points.
              1. Meaning of 200k free words. No premium until having published around 200k, the number didn't need to be exactly as it is possible to be a bit less or a bit more. After the 200k words, you can expect every contracted work to go premium at any moment. (the number can be different for each contract, but this is the standard one)
              2.License. They can adapt it to any format (comic, movie, audiobook, e-book, etc.), but you are still the author and have a share of everything without any cost for you.
              3. If you earn less than 200$, they accumulate it for next month and then pay it to you when you have more than 200$, you don't lose it, just get it later.
              4. Payments from Premium are always the next month. For example, Premium from August is paid in September. Those three months are for other types of income besides the Premium.
              5. In case you need to go to China they pay everything to you, I just come back today from Beijing, and they paid it all so I can ensure it, you can also ask Moloxiv who was also there. Moreover, they ask you if you can go; if you can't just say it. Of course, once you say that you will go, then you need to go, that is just being professional, but in any case, the travel is all paid by Webnovel.
              6. They can make suggestions like every editorial in the world with the books they have. However, they are suggestions; you didn't need to follow them if you don't want.
              7. If you break the contract and stop writing the novel, they can put someone else to continue, only in that case and it is to avoid novels being dropped before being finished.
              8. Actually, no one is checking the drafts (published chapters), nor forcing anyone to make changes, the suggestions can be followed or not, they suggest to help the authors, but if the author didn't like, there is no need to follow the suggestion.
              9. That is in case if you break the contract, breaking contracts always had consequences. If you sign, you mustn't break it. Although I doubt that they will really act in that way, they have the possibility, but sue someone is expensive and I doubt it will be good for them, maybe they will end wasting more than winning.
              10. They remain the copyright if you broke the contract, the solution is not breaking it.
              11. All the net income is split 50% Webnovel and 50% the author and that includes adaptations to comics, movies, e-books, audiobooks, etc. Although the author didn't need to do anything in those adaptations.
              12. The net income is split in 50/50; there is no 30% in any case. Webnovel have their own artists for covers, so you don't need to hire one. As for editors, some works will get although not all (at least this is that I know)
              13. Free SS are free, so they aren't money. They split 50% of the net income, but free SS are 0, so the 50% is still 0.
              14. The contract should be almost the same, but the contract isn't bad as people is always saying, it is a pretty good contract, the few restrictions are perfectly normal when signing a contract and as long you didn't break the contract there wouldn't be any problems.

              But, take everything with a grain of salt. You won't know the contract until webnovel gives you one. shrugs Or simply just don't sign anything and self-publish on Amazon or something... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Nobody forces you to sign.

                As a contracted author, all I can say is that it is all about good faith. Webnovel wants you to grow, so that both you and them can go laughing to the bank. For that purpose, they will support you as much as possible, but they have to have some fallback in case authors get writer's block or just lazy(apparently, it has happened). In that case, they lose all the investment they put in the author's book.
                Like @Dr_Zombie posted, Alemillach has made everything clear. Just keep writing guys, and don't be discouraged.

                  I take it that this is for Original Authors who have received and signed contracts with Webnovel right? This little one is just a small speck posting my work on Webnovel to increase my fan base and hopefully reach a nice quota. Does this relate to those peasants like me? :)

                  I only ask out of concern since my work has been growing slowly but surely...

                    FleetingClouds It very likely wouldn't hold up in US court. Most states have laws that specifically prevent this. It's a difficult uphill battle for an employer to try to recoup costs spent on wages and/or training in such a situation. There are very few successful cases, and all of them involved the employer stating in the contract that the wages/training cost would only be recouped if the employee quit before some set date (like 1 year or 2 years) and set a limit for the amount owed (Usually a portion of wages+training+ legal fees).

                    Edit: Also, the agreement must comply with state, local, and federal laws. When they Look at how many hours you worked and how much you were getting paid, it could conflict with minimum wage violations, making the employer (QI) liable for back wages.

                      Poche WN is a tyrant. If somebody could do a caricature of this company, it would be a TRex running amok

                          Demi was only posting what I wrote on discord, I basically broke down the contract webnovel have sent me in june/july. I took it to a lawyer and he laughed his ass off and quoted, "You'll be a fool to sign this."

                          While the contract might have changed since I got it, there is literally nothing stopping webnovel from terminating you for some bullshit and they try to get everything. The contract is so heavily in their favor that if THEY fuck up, you pay the price.

                          The contract said "You must listen to party A's suggestions, or at least compromise to a satisfactory resolution" or something like that. There is nothing stopping webnovel from suggesting 200 things, you can't do them all so they terminate you and try to get the past payments, copyright and anything else.

                          They expect you to sign it and then have "faith" they won't backstab you.

                          "It works in China." "We do this for Chinese authors." is pretty much the response you get from any staff from webnovel.

                          I suspect they changed the contract for a few people just so they would get people defending the contract. I'm sure there was a part of the contract about not badmouthing/slandering the contract or webnovel too (again, this is by memory) so unless you get somebody not contracted or part of the webnovel staff defending the contract, I wouldn't trust what they say.

                            Pegazz Also another reason that QI contracts wouldn't hold up in US courts. Good faith Law. The contract can't be overly unfair to the employee and the employer can't act in a way that harms the employee in a way that would be considered unfair, unhonest, or in bad faith.

                            Edit: An example would be if you're told to release 1 chapter a day and if QI doesn't like it, you must redo it and submit it within 1 week. And then they suddenly tell you they don't like your last 50 chapters, and you have 1 week to redo them. Or they don't like the direction your novels going so you have 1 week to write out 50 chapters of new plot. This would be considered unfair to the employee and would either break the contract or would lead to a change of contract if brought to court.

                                Pegazz Contracts normally state which country the legal battle will occur in and the process of the legal battle, but for authors who don't live in the country of the employer (China) or plan to visit in the future, they can basically ignore any attempts from the employer at compensation. The only way to enforce the contract would be for the employer to come to the country of the employee and settle it through the laws of the employees country. This doesn't exactly apply on larger scale things like government vs government, or large trade negotiations. Those are usually handle using international law which is handled by the United Nations.

                                    Tonufan123 Well even if they can't get their hands on it without suing in authors country, it's still in the contract which means they COULD go for it all.

                                        Pegazz They can attempt it, but then it would depend on the laws of the authors country. It would be very unlikely for QI to attempt this as it would cost tens of thousands at minimum, especially in the US where the contract wouldn't hold up in court. Like wise, QI could steal all your work, and repost it with a new author in China and you wouldn't be able to do anything unless you pay a massive amount in Chinese courts to fight them.

                                          Dr_Zombie 3. If you earn less than 200$, they accumulate it for next month and then pay it to you when you have more than 200$, you don't lose it, just get it later.

                                          This is the same for translators and editors. It's not like it's worded in a confusing way, so I don't know how the person who spread this misunderstood it...

                                            Tonufan123

                                            Let me clarify something in here... This is not an employer-employee relationship.

                                            This is a contractual relationship, where one takes advantage of the other. PS the country where the legal battle would take place should be HK, as it states in the contract that it is written under HK laws.

                                                I would like to point out that Alemillach was flown out for "free" because webnovel paid for it. But I remember the contract that said the cost would come out of his next monthly pay check.

                                                If it's all misinformation, then make the contract public. 1 post and all misinformation gets sorted out.

                                                  I posted the same thing myself.

                                                  This is really not about how "bad" the contract is or how it's "fine" as long as you're doing it in "good faith"... man.
                                                  It's about how backward thinking the people that are running this site are. Business is business, I get it. It is fine not to conform to the western ways especially when your roots are from China, I get it. But what pisses the living crap out of me is how bad you people are at treating your customers, the readers, and now even the young writers with the passion to do writing. One of the reasons why art is not being taken seriously...

                                                  Everyone had different situation. This is my opinion.

                                                  NinjaScroll First 200k words are free

                                                  For a note that is around 2 of the first Harry Potter books. So for readers, if a story you read goes premium, then please remember the author has given 2 free books. I believe it started as China 200k characters but English word is harder than Chinese Character (well English has "to" to increase word counts). Nevertheless, this should benefit readers. (Also there is some rule of 'popularity', so not all novel with 200k words can be premium.)

                                                  NinjaScroll When you sign, they have the licensing rights to your novel so they can sell it anywhere.

                                                  This is normal. Even WN need to license translation novels from Qidian.

                                                  NinjaScroll If you earn under $200, they do not have to pay you.

                                                  If you earn over $200, they can delay any payment for up to 3 months.

                                                  This is normal in business. Walmart also delays, Amazon also delays. I even delay my supplier payment similar some stores delay the payment to me. We even have a delay to pay tax. The matter is duration.

                                                  NinjaScroll While under contract, if they ask you to do a book signing in China/Ph etc, then you must attend at your own expense.

                                                  This is rebuked. Ale is in China on Webnovel's cost. (Waiting for the Photo though @Sunnnyy similar to this https://forum.webnovel.com/d/7959-sunny-s-diary-part-i) (Yet, check the contract when one get it.)

                                                  NinjaScroll While contracted, they can tell you "suggestions" on how to make your story better for the readers (They tell you what to write).
                                                  If you can not comply with their "suggestions" they have the right to terminate your contract.

                                                  This is similar to Japanese Mangaka. A company also 'need' to direct certain manga. Perhaps 'terminated' them earlier if it is unpopular, etc and move the author to better prospect project. perhaps forced them to be 'prolonged' to milk more money. A company might know the market more than an author. Nevertheless, this is the reason for 'typical' style in each publisher company.

                                                  This might be bad for an 'artist' author.

                                                  NinjaScroll While contracted, they can hire someone else to write instead of you.

                                                  Perhaps it is because of Tales of Demons and Gods and MadSnails. Is it a 'ghost writer' writing it now? Since MadSnails made a new pen~name. Want more of this novel! If this is as Ale said then it is good.

                                                  NinjaScroll If terminated, you must pay back ALL the money you've earned while under contract + any damage they foresee to charge you with.

                                                  Erm... this is impossible clause. Almost no chance for WN to win outside China and HK. This is the biggest problem. One had to consult with 'lawyer' for this.

                                                  NinjaScroll If terminated, they will try to get the copyright of your novel so they can sell it anywhere with 100% profit.

                                                  This also needed to be checked when one get the contract. However, most traditional publishers now asked for the copyright. Consult this term with lawyer.

                                                  NinjaScroll All sales/ss/ad revenue will be split 50/50 with you and Webnovel.

                                                  WOW! This is more than I can imagine. (I thought only SS revenue is shared.) Perhaps this included 'Gift' or donation. Is this included Patreon revenue? (Based on Ale and Kevin, they can't post advanced chapter on any other platform.). Nevertheless, if Ads also given, then it is good.

                                                  Perhaps this is what the sweetener that a translator gets (Webnovel Premium is not as profitable compared to Patreon system for now). Nevertheless, this made unpopular novel would find a translator harder tho. All want popular ones. (Readers who made a novel request should consider this).

                                                  Warning: This is a good reason to make your collection data better @WEBNOVEL_OFFICIAL. That is a good sign of you have the 'real' data. I know even Wattpad manipulated number of view data. However, please correct the 'collection' bug. It is hard to trust ads and income data if you can't give your correct collections number.

                                                  NinjaScroll They have other charges too, so you'll really end up with about 30% of the profit, then if you've got editor/artist that you've got to pay, will become much less.

                                                  A bit strange, I believe usually Traditional Publisher handle this. The traditional publisher asked for 85~95% tho instead of 50%. So 30% is a bit higher than what traditional publisher give (5~15%). (I have to admit Traditional Publisher had better reach with offline book and bigger bargaining power with Amazon. Other than Ale, the other contracted authors don't get that good treatment. At least, give some banner advertising or apps ads! Some even readers didn't know the entire contracted novel.).

                                                  NinjaScroll All ss revenue will be for paying ss only, any free will not generate any money for you.

                                                  This is fair. Free SS is free promotion for readers who can't pay. As a reader, this is good. As an author, this meant you share your book for free. Might not suit some authors who write for his living. This is a big information for readers. Nevertheless the price for 'paid' SS is too expensive.

                                                  NinjaScroll This works in China!

                                                  This is the source opinion not in the contract. Based on the staff, Original Authors is offered the same contract signed by IET, Er Gen, and many more.

                                                  This is better than the slave contract rumor, where it was rumored future novels has to be 'contracted' to WN.

                                                  Also even when Outline need to be submitted, could WN stop an author for making it speedier? Author still had power when to end a novel. Not very bad compared to the 'slave' contract rumor.

                                                  There are points that an original authors need to considered especially about ownership in case of termination, but most of Original Authors are amateurs who would never have a chance to contract with a traditional publisher. Even traditional publisher want ownership now.

                                                  Worst come worst, there is a ghost writer made a fan-fiction with Patreon donation for her version of a popular novel that she used to ghost write.

                                                  For those who didn't like see their ownership shared. Self-Publishing in Amazon is the way. Use Webnovel to promote your novel. That is allowed. There is also other sites for promotion.

                                                  There is also problem of Webnovel's support to other contracted authors outside Ale. This is actually the worst advertising of Original Author program in my opinion. Even some translation projects didn't have the support as good as Ale.

                                                  PS: I have suggested a rotating banner for Webnovel's contracted work (translation and original). You can make app ads with different novels. Readers also would enjoy seeing novel illustration. Webnovel also could introduce more novels to its own readers perhaps making them paying for SS. This only cost in-house designer time.

                                                                            MasterRabbink Rebuked my ass, I found a screenshot of the part about travelling (from the contract they sent me)

                                                                            Party B acknowledges and agrees that the costs incurred in organizing various events
                                                                            in connection with the Work, including but not limited to promotional events held by
                                                                            Party A from time to time are considered part of Party A's operating costs (to be taken
                                                                            into account in calculating the Net Income).

                                                                            Party B = author, Party A = Webnovel

                                                                            Operating costs come out of party B's paycheck!

                                                                                Pegazz Thank you for correction. Then it is shared between an Author and Webnovel.

                                                                                Sigh... Most company gives free traveling to the staffs for 'motivating'. Perhaps Ale go to China to attend an event not connected with work (that is to report Webnovel to China people but Webnovel can't be accessed in China).

                                                                                    Cobyboy "But that 15% royalty rate has long been the norm for print-publishing contracts."

                                                                                    https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2014/07/21/why-amazon-terrifies-publishers-lets-look-at-royalty-statements/#33f1f5e543d1

                                                                                    Got it from internet research. There are many article about that. I just summarized thing. That is written by not Forbes. Amazon is still the king which offer 70% if you join their exclusive contract. (We are talking about traditional publisher which could market your book).

                                                                                    Yup. Amazon had 'destroyed' traditional publisher.

                                                                                        MasterRabbink Noice, the most I have heard of was around 80%. Oh btw, 50% is not really true in Webnovel's contract. It should be 50% of the 70%, which is 35% Hahahaha well, still relatively "better" than traditional publishers.

                                                                                            Cobyboy There is more resource. Webnovel is actually trying to 'change' the market. The web novel in here is actually Steam 'Alpha'.

                                                                                            The author said he got 41% after blablabla from Amazon.

                                                                                            PS: Wow! a new feature on the forum? That is a link.

                                                                                                Cobyboy MasterRabbink NinjaScroll

                                                                                                This is the old model and while it is true it is no longer the case. Traditional publishers would pay an author an advance and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on printing. They were taking the risk of this cost, that is why authors who were less of a risk got a better deal. I will use $100 as an example to simplify the explanation.
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Book instore - $100
                                                                                                Retailer - $60 (varies from 40 to 70, 40% margin would be the norm)
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Publisher costs
                                                                                                book - $30
                                                                                                author - $6
                                                                                                marketing - $5 (varies lets use the industry standard 5% of RRP)
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Publisher Margin - $19
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                On top of this publishers had to wear return costs from retailers, freight costs both ways and pay for endaps, rebates, price protection etc in retailers. They were not ripping off authors, this was the number it needed to be for the industry to work.
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Now there are no longer printing costs and especially the upfront cost. This is why publishers are now offering 30-70% to the author. In Amazons self-published case, the author bears all the costs and can recoup up to 70% of RRP minus fees. There are services which print on demand so an author can sell printed books with no massive outlay.
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                On the surface, Qidians contract is not surprising. An author does not have to accept it and they could ask for terms taken out if they wish. Entering into a contract is a negotiation, you don't have to accept the initial terms. 50% is fairly standard for electronic publishing plus they have an excellent platform. There is a benefit to being on the front page almost every day as well which cannot be denied. It is rare for an uncontracted webnovel to be in the top 10 now due to the visibility front page gets webnovels.
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                If you want your freedom. Don't sign it and do what I do.
                                                                                                Royal Road + Web novel (free advertising for me) https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/15614/daedalus
                                                                                                Patreon Advance chapters https://www.patreon.com/skullysln
                                                                                                When you have a few books worth and 10,000 followers goto Amazon.

                                                                                                Thanks Web Novel. You rock.

                                                                                                        Alemillach and other top 3 must be getting special contract different from the other thats what I though. They are good author that deserve it anyway so wn must be wanted to earn their favor. It would be different for the other author though. So its case by case I guess its the same in any company. If you have ability the company will favor you over others. Without ability they will oppress with unfair contract.

                                                                                                          Skully_ I have done this for a while already, thanks for the suggestion hahaha. I closed my Patreon because I couldn't maintain it. Currently relying on my Amazon sales.

                                                                                                              Puppet_Meister HAHAHAHA those three? They are obliged to not say anything bad though... Don't trust what they are posting. Contract clause,

                                                                                                              "Party B shall take all necessary actions to maintain the image of Party A..."

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