I had been thinking recently about how China's Communist values are rarely, if ever, reflected in the webnovels we read and was wondering why that is. Communist China encourages a cooperative way of living where everyone in China is on the same team and goes to great lengths to maintain that image of codependency. Whether or not that is truly how China operates can be debated, but it cannot be argued that China's culture centers on the idea of everyone being a part of a whole. This ideal is not seen in these novels. If anything, these novels often depict a protagonist going against the grain of society and fighting the established structure to destroy it or at least alter it to their liking. While most Chinese I have met in my time in mainland China adhere to the idiom, "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down," that idea often seems to be rejected by Qidian's authors.

I think that in part it is a necessary aspect of an extended novel. Many of these novels go on for hundreds of chapters, but can only do so in some fairly specific and repetitive ways seeing as conflict can only be between the protagonist and the self, the other, society, or nature. I rarely see any tragic heroes with fatal flaws in these novels, and other avenues of conflict with the self such as mental illness are deliberately marginalized by Chinese society. As a result conflicts with the self are often secondary to the plot. Conflicts with other people are common, but can only take you so far before it begins to drag. Spending hundreds of chapters confronting one antagonist fatigues the readers' interest. Parading one person for the protagonist to face after another to keep the story going hurts the story even more as I feel it makes the plot feel tired and forced. Conflicts with nature are seen in some cases within cultivation novels as "heavenly tribulation," but the tension in those scenes is almost never drawn from the actual confrontation with the tribulation, but from interlopers trying to profit from the protagonist's struggle in one way or another. Sometimes heavenly tribulation is not so much a conflict as it is Deus Ex Machina to give the protagonist a power up in their time of need. So then the only means left available for authors to produce conflict is to confront societal norms. As a result, the protagonists in these novels often start from nothing and go through great pains to climb the social ladder, and is met with heavy resistance from the status quo. This conflict of having to challenge a group above the protagonist are almost ubiquitous within Chinese webnovels. In a sense, many of these novels fall victim to their own length. The only believable conflict that can take hundreds of chapters to over come is one where a person has to over come not just one person or a natural disaster, but an organization with various goals in contrast with the protagonist's and hold bases of operation throughout multiple settings to keep things fresh.

I also question whether this conflict with the ruling classes in these novels is not reflective of an underlying truth that China's people are not of one mind the way China would want. It seems that the most popular novels tout Western ideals of individualism and personal success over collectivism and working towards the greater good. Again, this could just be due to the nature of storytelling thanks in part to the requirement of conflict, but I think it could also hint at an underlying sentiment in China that people are not as keen on some Communist ideals as we may be led to believe. Otherwise, why would so many successful novels depict protagonists who tear down presiding regimes for personal freedoms and gains? Why would so many authors create these characters who held such an individualist attitude, and why would so many Chinese citizens consume this media?

Feel free to respond below; I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the matter.

    ImperfectInfinity Because webnovels is for young people, every young man like freedom and positive, isn't it? Although it is true that the current ruling class is trying to instil collective ideas into the public, it is clear that the people don't accept the idea of communism,it is not as popular as expected.

        If you look at old (and I mean 100+ years old) wuxia stories, they are exactly the same; the protagonists exist outside conventional, Confucianist morality. Xianxia is a more recent genre but draws from the same literary tradition.
        Quite a lot of the webnovels aimed at women (stories in Chinese are often pretty explicitly intended for only one gender) have a protagonist who is perfectly happy to operate within the absurd strictures of alternate-universe medieval China.

          aantia Even in those women oriented novels you will often see the protagonist try to enforce her own agency in some way. It may not be an outright rejection and upheaval of society, but it they do try to step outside of the influence the system has on those of the same class/subgroup.

              Primarily its important to keep in mind that the values of the Communist Party of China are significantly different than the generally known 'Communist Values', after the 60's they had to adjust and make changes.
              With that said; I agree, and I always find it interesting how often the MC defies or overthrows the existing government in the novels. There are even depictions of corruption and authoritarian behavior is often called out as something the MC will struggle against.
              I have noticed they are very careful when writing events around a government that is actually associated with 'real-life' China; if a government is of a Chinese nation (and not set in a historical setting), then its pretty rare for the government to be depicted in any negative light. (I'm open to counter-examples, just can't recall many)

              Now that you point it out, it does seem that the novels that keep you immersed and interested in reading further have some sort of giant organization masterminding most of the challenges the MC faces.

              Paperplane My point is you don't see Western civilizations creating copious fictions celebrating the merits of Communism, but you see Eastern civilizations creating copious fictions celebrating the merits of Individualism. I believe this suggests that we all have an inherent desire for independence that supersedes our desire for success of our society. I find that to be an interesting examination of the human condition. Anyone who lives with a lot of freedom can know how scary that can be some times, especially when you are young and don't have a clue what you want to do with your life. Sometimes I believe people in the West secretly crave more structure in their lives, but that is not reflected in their fiction the same way the East's desire for freedom is reflected in theirs. Fiction is escapism, but it is interesting to look at how we are escaping and what we are escaping to.

                  aantia I hadn't noticed that the stories where the "jump back into X Dynasty" are so often both those targeted towards women (I hadn't known they were so explicitly targeted) and the ones in which the MC (usually) causes the least social upheaval.
                  Now that I think about it, it is pretty evident that there are gendered plot paths. Its pretty rare that a female MC causes any sort of actual political or governance change; so while there are some exceptions (generally where the female MC is portrayed as man-like, or has a male powerhouse to back them up) the female MCs are reactive, as opposed to the (generally) proactive male MCs.

                      ApatheticSlurpee The only political impact those female protagonists have is due to them saving a male politician (or one of his favorite wives/concubines) since she is a transmigrated super doctor, or killing a male politician (who is obviously very bad in all ways, like corrupt and a rapist, etc.), since she is a transmigrated super assasin who may or may not specializes in poisons (and thus also is a super doctor by night).

                        ImperfectInfinity Western do idolize the idea of communism/socialism. We have Cuba, Venezuela who are communist and other countries under socialism "charm" such as Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Honduras, Ecuador, Haiti, Paraguay, Nicaragua and Guyana in South America and Caribbean. We (USA) have Sanders popularity as an example.

                            Citlalicue Perhaps you may view this differently, but when I think the Western world I think 1st world Countries. During the Cold War everyone on the USA's side was called 1st world, everyone on the USSR's side was 2nd world, and the unaligned were 3rd world. Those definitions have shifted now, but when people speak of the West I think people's minds go to USA, Canada, and most of Europe, what was traditionally the 1st world, and anything South of that doesn't really come into the equation when defining 'The West.' I am not trying to diminish the South's importance in the geo-political climate of today, but when talking about the West and the East, few peoples minds go to South America when taking about the West. I would argue Japan and Australia are considered more 'Western Countries' than Venezuela. Bernie is an oddball, and I'll admit he garnered some traction, but just because people were interested in trying to vote him in doesn't mean we fantasize about Communism. When I say fantasize I mean fictional novels. Parts of the West may entertain some Communistic ideals, but it isn't so immersed into the culture of predominately Individualistic societies to the point that there are ample examples of fiction writers touting the positives, or even the neutrality of Communistic ideals. Even today, Communism is a dirty word in the USA. Eastern writers who live in Communistic countries invent entire worlds based on the premise of Individualism, but I challenge you to name 5 authors who live in a primarily Individualistic country who put forth the effort to create entire worlds where sacrificing for the greater good is celebrated as the premise. If fiction is a window into a culture's fantasy, then it seems the East fantasizes about being like the West, and the West fantasizes about...being itself.

                                ImperfectInfinity What? Oh man!! Most authors are, some more than others, together with the rest of society are socialist, believes in socialism and some go to the extreme of communism. To name a few authors Mark Twain (The adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn). Oscar Wilde Irish author and poet who introduced us to Dorian Gray. The famous Helen Keller. Not only famous authors but painter Pablo Picasso and also physicist of great renown Albert Einstein he went as far to say that capitalism was making humans suffer from a "process of deterioration" and making them "feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naïve, simple and unsophisticated enjoyment of life". Ideologically an African nationalist and socialist Nelson Mandela and to some extent even Mahatma Gandhi was considered as socialist. Even some Christians leaders believe that the teachings of Jesus were consistent with socialism. Here in America Ernesto "Che" Guevara is still inspiriting the youth till this day. I know when you talk about the "west" America is not in people's mind but just because is not in mind doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Let's be honest, most of society actually condemns capitalism. If you dig in your part of the world you'll find them. Maybe not to an extreme but they are there.

                                  i think its just an inherent part of most asian culture of wanting to succeed and be the best in all aspects thus we have a protagonist that does not have major flaws

                                    ImperfectInfinity Actually, almost every piece of media in the west demonizes capitalism and is pro government control these days. Every time you hear about a problem there is always an out cry for the government to fix things. Stories often make corperations and businessman the bad guys and make social activists the hero for "getting the government off their ass and do something about it".

                                    And isn't more government control the core of socialism/communism?

                                    If anything, the only voice of individualism is pretty much in xianxia novels these days.

                                        5 days later

                                        ThousandHeavens You should always challenge yourself to try and understand things you don't. That is how you become smarter and mature. If you don't get it, ask questions. People like to tell others what they think and why; everyone wants to teach what they know.

                                            The MC can hate Japan and Korea to show SARFT some collective unity LOL

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