Tomoyuki
First off, I called people in general entitled not one person.

If you want to make shit personal, I won't discuss it with you.
So keep your insults impersonal in the future. But, sure I may be an asshole, but I am right.

And, no I have never said that pirates are good, don't twist my words around. I said it happens and it happens to everyone-though Webnovel has a huge problem with, and that there is nothing that can be done about it.

Most professional writers write 2k or more words a day, a WN chapter only requires 1300 or so. So your daily workload is less than a typical writer, and then you figure those writers have worked for years while the typical wn writer has often just picked up the pen. WN writers are well below standard in raw effort and in final product, why in the world should they be making money?

The world is speaking its truth as they don't because the fruits of their labors suck. I never claimed to be a good guy, I'm simply telling people their wrong so that the few who really want to learn something or make money in the future can do so, but as it stands they blame others, instead of improving themself's.

The self is all that they control. Blaming Pirates, and worse the readers/ clients, is the dumbest idea a writer have. As, it's never productive. A writer works for people and people can demand whatever standards they want for their money, they can be as entilted as they desire, because it's their choice to spend it. It's the writers job to be WORTHY of the money of their readership. That's what it is to be humble, not entitled.

Also, I haven't web novels in ages, I don't priate or read them. I don't read them because the writing is below standard for me to even read. But, when the fuck did I- The person your addressing say reading webnovels is a waste of time? You love putting words in my mouth, but their not things I have said. I'm not going to defends other's viewpoints. You can take those statements up with them.

I have said, "Sometimes, I feel like reading something stupid and a Webnovel can do that for me." So, that's please, if you have a problem with readers, don't take it up with me, as I have never said anything up daily updates, etc, Personally, I'd rather a writer not have daily updates and give me good content, hell I'd even avoid novels that have them unless they're contracted.

      lozlo

      That's not what I said...

      I was talking about the writers getting paid that they should be honored they're making any money. As their many writers who have lost money in this line of work.

      If something is free, a reader has no entitlement to anything. If a reader-pays, they can make whatever demands they desire as a client of the author. Of course, in turn, an author can pick their clients, just as a reader does.

      Writers provide a service, I can reject or not reject as desired.

      Also, I'm not a contracted author, I have seen the contract, it's something I would never sign. I have been offered other contracts, from other companies, but that's because they were interested in my work, which I consider an honor, with those offers I can reject or take at my desire. Just like a reader can not read my writing.

          Tomoyuki True. But there are quite a lot of good stories there for free. And, even if you find one you like that isn't, they are usually in the neighborhood of $3 or under per book, as opposed to the 10-150 you would pay here. That's not even touching on the quality difference. And I was mostly just listing it as an alternative because I didn't want to mention their direct competitor, lol. Who, by the way, is making much better business decisions from what I've seen. But that's just my opinion. Time will be the true judge.

              Acutelittletrap Yeah. Once you start talking about money it becomes far more complicated. On one side I want to feel that no amount of money entitles you to make demands of an author. But, on the other hand, I also feel that authors have certain responsibilities once they start making money selling their product. It's hard to balance so I usually don't try.
              I've heard a little bit about the contract here, as well as the contracts for normal Qidian authors. Nothing specific, but I've heard it's not good at all. I'm always surprised that people accept it. I've always favored going with Patreon or Amazon. But that has its own obstacles as well.

                lozlo I am not quite sure about what you mean when you say they went back on their word. I am certainly not too familiar with Qidian so you might be right about it. I do not know. Oh, well, that's how it works everywhere, doesn't it? They are bound to put stuff for free in the initial days and they are bound to monetize it as they get customers. Readers are customers here. I mean, ultimately this is a business and I guess we all know this is how it works regardless of what one feels about the same.

                    Acutelittletrap You called Cantiara a moron, and now you're backpedaling. You quoted her, replied directly to her, addressed her point, and then after three paragraphs, you suddenly finished with

                    Acutelittletrap In short, you're a moron.

                    That does not sound like you are referring to people in general at all. But go ahead and lie about it in front of everybody, it makes you more persuasive, I'm sure. And makes you "right."

                    Again, most professional writers earn a few hundred times more than Webnovel writers. By your math, if professional writers earn several thousand dollars (up to ten grand) a month by writing 2K or more words a day, then Webnovel writers should earn half of that...maybe a thousand or two thousand dollars for writing a little over half of that amount. But they don't even earn that much - the average writer on Webnovel earns $10-$50 a month at most, and you're saying that even though they put in a fraction of work as a professional author, they should still earn ZERO. Nothing. Math isn't your strong suit, obviously. None of the authors here complain about earning so little, because they are aware of their lack of quality, and no one is demanding to earn a professional author's paycheck, or for full royalties. Yet you are here demanding that they write and work for free, and be denied pocket change. Let's go along with the argument that professional writers deserve the thousands of dollars they earn because they put in all the work, they get professional editing done, they polish their works. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that amateur writers on Webnovel should earn zero. They do a fraction of the work that pro writers do, therefore they earn a tiny fraction of what professional authors earn. Isn't that natural? What's the problem there? You're essentially saying "it doesn't matter if they do a fraction of what a pro writer does, they don't even deserve that tiny fraction of income, they must write for free." How does that even make sense? If you do x/100 amount of work that a pro authors does, and earn less than x/100 amout of what he/she earns, then it's natural, but you are here saying that Webnovel writers should earn absolutely zero.

                    And you claim that you are right, and writers are wrong. I think there is something seriously messed up with your head. Not only are you a liar, you are deranged.

                    Writers are not blaming others. If they suck, they suck. If nobody reads their stories, then they have failed, evidently. They have nobody to blame except themselves. The problem here is that readers demand that these writers provide chapters for free - like what you are doing right now. If readers like the story to the point they are willing to pay for it, then the writer has succeeded, regardless of whether he/she is an amateur, writes 1,300 words a day, and publishes on Webnovel or not. However, what people like you are doing is coming on here and saying they should not be paid at all even though they put in the corresponding amount of work.

                    Evidently there is something wrong with you, and you will delude yourself into believing how you are "right" no matter how much people point out the holes in your logic (and here you are criticizing writers for plot holes, I don't think you're in any position to do so, given your own leaps of logic and delusional mentality).

                    I have no problem with readers. I have a problem with you. I am not blaming pirates or readers. I am blaming you. Even worse, you yourself admitted that a writer "works for people" and then you turn around and say that they don't deserve to make any money. How in the bloody f-ing hell does that even compute? If people don't bother to pay a single cent, what makes them think they have the right to demand whatever standards they want? Why the f should a writer listen to a "reader" demanding for free mass releases when he/she doesn't get a single cent or benefit in return? Why should a writer spend hours a day writing for an unreasonable, demanding audience who refuses to invest a single cent and demand that he/she writes for free? He/she is better off doing other things with his/her time, like gaming, or watching a movie or indulging in other hobbies. Or getting a parttime job that actually pays him/her a lot better.

                    Acutelittletrap t's the writers job to be WORTHY of the money of their readership.

                    Duh. So you're agreeing with what I said, essentially. You've been picking and choosing what I said, and ignoring the rest (pretty rich, considering what you're accusing me of).

                    Tomoyuki I don't go to a restaurant and demand that I get food for free because it's bad or that I can get better food for cheaper elsewhere, I just don't visit the restaurant in future (and seriously, why wouldn't I go straight to that better and cheaper restaurant in the first place?!). Similarly, if the writer is really that bad, then nobody will buy his/her book, and eventually he/she will have to buck up and find a way to regain his/her readerbase. The readers should just not buy his/her book. Not go onto the forums whining about how he/she should provide his/her book for free. Is logic not your strong point?

                    So you do not deny what I said here, do you? You are basically reiterating what I just said, and I don't know how that suddenly leads to "writers should write for free, and if they ask money for their works, they are entitled." No, that's not how the real world works. You don't get to walk into a shop, tell the cashier that this product or that product is of poor quality and thus you should get it for free. If you think it's poor quality, you go buy something else that's of better quality or cheaper. Not demand that people give away poor quality stuff for free. When you create a product and put it up for sale, the consumers have the right to decide whether they want to buy it or not. If it's of poor quality, naturally they will not buy it. Who the f goes and says, "your product sucks, you should produce and give it away for free"? No, it's up to the readers to walk away from a product they deem terrible, not demand that they be given the product for free. Do that in a shop, and you'll get arrested for shoplifting. If Webnovel writers are bad, then they deserve to lose readers. No one is contesting that. What I'm contesting is you declaring that Webnovel writers do not deserve a single cent even though you admitted themselves that they WORK and are subjected to demands of their customers/readers/consumers. Your logic is highly flawed, and I honestly am surprised how you can go and delcare yourself "right" and then attack other people for their plot holes or lack of consistency and logic, or even call other people a "moron."

                    If I put words in your mouth, I apologize. I guess I got carried away because it seems that all these readers demanding for free chapters or more free passes kind of blend in together, and I mix you all up. That is no excuse, I understand, and sorry about that.

                    However, if Iozlo, me, Kazesendou, Cantiara and a bunch of other posters "misinterpreted" what you said (like your insults being directed at people in general even though you @ Cantiara and then called her a moron), then maybe the problem is with you and the way you write. As you pointed out, instead of blaming other people and accusing them of being wrong, they should improve themselves, but somehow that never applies to you because you are always right. Sucks to have your own hypocrisy pointed back out to you, huh?

                              lozlo Yeah, they really need to bump down the prices or give discounts for people who want to purchase chapters in bulk.

                              However, do take note that books that cot $150 aren't a single book. They consist of multiple volumes, so if you take that quantity and divide it out, it's actually still $10 a volume (just that they are all under the same series). It's like how Dengeki Bunko take webnovel series from Shousetsuka ni Narou and then publish them as several volumes under the same title (like Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou). Now I'm not saying that Webnovel should sell these volumes at the same price, but I am baffled when people complain about paying $150-$500 for a "single" book when they are effectively purchasing mulitple volumes of a single series. You will never see a single book have thousands of chapters - they will be divided into chapters if you ever publish them physically. Even so, I think discounts, or cheaper ways to purchase chapters in bulks should be considered seriously.

                                  Tomoyuki That's why I had such a wide range 10-150. Believe it or not, there are a few books that are in the $150 range because there is so much filler that the author managed to stretch that one section for over 400 chapters. If they tried to break them up, they would end up with books with almost no progress, and you need to have progress with each book. They would need to be similar to a mini-story, even if they aren't all-inclusive.
                                  The work that would need to be done before they could publish most of the Chinese novels physically would probably make it not worth it. They would seriously need to cut even some of their best novels in half going by word count. The irony of all this though, is that I actually have no idea what the quality of the stories for Original authors specific to Webnovel. That would probably be a different story.

                                      lozlo They still do it, though. I know for sure that Tian Can Tu Dou's webnovels, and Coiling Dragon, have all been published into several volumes in paperback. As is The Emperor's Avatar.

                                          Acutelittletrap

                                          So, after a good night rest and re-reading your post, I think I finally understood it. However, it's so fallacious (including the ad hominem) that I'm not sure if it was really directed at me or you were just using my post to make a sarcastic point.

                                          If it were the first, then I'm not going to waste my time to try to convince you otherwise because your personal attack has made you automatically lose the argument. If you'd like to re-offer your argument without it then you may still convince me. But otherwise, I'll just take my win and stop here.

                                          If it were the latter, then a bit of advice, try to convey your points properly and directly so people won't misunderstand you.

                                              Tomoyuki Really? Coiling Dragon is the example you want to use? Something that was done by the competitor and pirated by this site. It's even published at a reasonable price on Amazon, probably 1/6th of what this website would have charged to read it. It's practically the exact opposite of what happens here, and the number one reason I laugh when I see complaints here about people stealing novels and posting them somewhere else.

                                                  lozlo

                                                  That's simply not true...
                                                  If you meant by competitor is WW, then they don't have the translation rights for this novel. They effective sold it to WN without the translator's permission. I'm not gonna elaborate more on this because of the legalities involved, but I just wanted to point out that it's not true that WN pirated this novel.

                                                      lozlo I was actually talking about the Chinese version that's being sold as paperbacks in retail, not on Amazon. As far as I know, Tian Cu Tu Dou's novels have not been translated into English and sold on Amazon, sorry for not being clear enough. But they are being sold as Chinese paperbacks in Kinokuniya, I actually saw them.

                                                      Also, what Cantiara said. Not sure if you can laugh about this when you don't even know the truth of the matter.

                                                          lozlo

                                                          lozlo Don't like that she hit a little too close to the truth eh? Your response makes it obvious that you know that she has a point. You even went to the trouble of making ridiculous examples about how you aren't forcing them to read. Lie to yourself if you want, but you're going to have to try harder if you want to lie to me.

                                                          This is the typical example of someone making an assumption, using it to prove his own point, and then use said point to prove that assumption was right in the first place. Thats a rather common logicial missconception used by people unable to participate in mature discussion, yet you can't even reach that level, without even a slightest attempt to prove your initial assumption, which I can tell you - is wrong.

                                                          It just irks me how entilted some people are, but just this fact alone makes them too worthless as discussion partners to warrant my serious response.

                                                          lozlo Lie to yourself if you want, but you're going to have to try harder if you want to lie to me

                                                          Sorry kiddo, I don't give any shts about you and your delusions. Your words only show how fragile your ego is.

                                                          lozlo More than a few people have posted facts with the numbers and stats to back it up, showing how ridiculous the prices are here.

                                                          Actually, there were like three enormous discussions, where people actually were respectfull and factual enough to get me to explore the topic in depth. In the end, it all got summed up by some other posts that used to be promoted at the top of the site, but I can't even be bothered to find what was the name of the discussion. I like to believe that I already made a name for myself on the forums with how active I used to be, so you can just ask around.

                                                          But there is one sentence that sums it up perfectly, so I will imperfectly quote it:
                                                          "Amazon and Webnovel are two diffrent things. On amazon, you pay for the finished product, while on Webnovel you are supporting author in order to get him to write."

                                                          While you could argue for a LONG time about whether its worth it or not to support people on webnovel, in the end, no matter what you say, it doesn't matter. If people keep paying, it means they believe the price to be fair. If they stop paying, WN will be forced to change their aproach, and so far, everyone is happy outside of leeches like you.

                                                          lozlo get one thing straight, the exploitation you feel is from Qidian, not the readers.

                                                          Thats actually pretty wrong. To exploit someone, means to unfairly takes advantage of him. Qidian proposed me a contract, and gave me way more than enough time for me to go through, and even delegated a person to clarify all the doubts that I could possibly have. The reality of publishing is harh, which most of the people complaining about contract simply doesn't realise. But since I was okay with the contract, I signed it. This is called a fair deal.

                                                          On the other side, its free readers that demands more chapters, lesser prices and all and going to pirate sites (for your information, yesterday someone showed me that my story is fcking top1 in recommended on a pirate app, I even downloaded it to check it out, and surprise surprise, its true!)

                                                          So no, it's pirates who exploit me, by stealing my work and letting free readers read it for free.

                                                          All in all, you are wrong in everything, every. single. sentence. you wrote, yet you act like you have any basis to prove being right. You are quite funny, I will give you that.

                                                                      Seriously people, there's no one correct way to defend either side of the story. Platforms will differ in how their business model is. The content of the stories and ideas greatly influence the demand and how well people accept it with all of its flaws.
                                                                      For example, I often make hundreds of dollars on a cheap draft of an idea which may or may not work and needs a professional editor to fix it up. And I get it edited for free through being sponsored by a company. You may think that is some kind of crazy fantasy, but it happens. These, my friends, are called patents.
                                                                      No one argument will fit the mold. The businesses will do whatever they can as long as money is there. Are they giving me the shaft by giving me only hundreds for an idea that could make millions? Maybe. Could the patent end up being a dud? Possible too. That's how the world works.

                                                                      Tomoyuki

                                                                      Stop comparing normal writers to the standard professional. It's just invalid. Most often, professionals have worked years and written millions of words before earning any money. Most self-published novels lose money, this is also a fact. This is akin to compairing a teenager who started playing basketball to a professonal in the NBA. Can they get to that point, sure, but their not their... So when you say professonal, you remove countless writers from the topic, which is unfair to them and a untruthfull comparison.

                                                                      When did I say writers should not earn money?
                                                                      "Also, to all you writers stinking of entitlement, it's stupid to assume or hope you will make money when you likely have not proofread/edited/ checked for plotholes or even obtained a beta reader. Hell all you have done, is likely publisher your first or second draft of an unfinished novel."

                                                                      This quote does not say that. It says, authors who have not put in the work, should not think they will get results, thinking that they will, is entiltlement.

                                                                      The problem is you're confusing my words with other things others have posted here, for example this WN, should be free idea or even daily chapters, as I have never said anything on this topic.- Well, I might have long ago, but never to this stance I am sorta being forced to defend.

                                                                      But, let me be clear, even though it was not said directly, my posts are meant for authors who earned/wish to earn money. A free service provides little entitlement to the user. - Stuff like known delays, or notice of a dropped novel, as it requires little effort to inform the end user.

                                                                      Also to readers who priate novels like the ones on webnovel, please look up lit-rpg on amazon often you can read them with KU, and most of these have some type of editing, unlike most WN's.

                                                                          Acutelittletrap If you did not mean that writers should not earn money, then I apologize. For some reason you came across as saying, "writers should not make money at all if they did not proofread/edited/checked for plot holes or published their first or second draft of an unfinished novel."

                                                                          Obviously, if you only meant that they should not get results if they don't put in the work, then I agree. But that wasn't very clear because you were the one who brought up the comparisons between professional and amateur writers in the first place, which made it look like you are implying that amateur writers should not expect to earn any income at all until they become professional.

                                                                          Also, when you talk about professional basketballers or NBA, and comparing them to a teenager who started playing basketball...well, we have something called sports scholarships. If you perform well in school and work hard in training (just like how you get popular with your daily updates, getting lots of votes and readers online on Webnovel), the school grants you scholarships. Companies sponsor your training. You receive a stipend (and are bonded to the company, which is basically the same as a contract). You still participate in regional school tournaments. So yes, even if you are a teenager who plays basketball at the "amateur" level, you can expect to get some income. That is not being entitled. The sponsors chose to invest in you because they see a bright future. Similarly, Webnovel chooses to give contracts to writers they deem promising because they update regularly and have managed to successfully built up a fanbase, which proves that they are doing something right in their writing.

                                                                          So I don't even know what exactly is the point you're trying to make, or who you are calling entitled. The contracted writers? Or writers who don't have a contract but demand that they be given one and that they deserve to be paid even though they haven't built up the necessary fanbase to prove that they can succeed in writing? If it's the latter, then your point is redundant, because their stories are free, do not require free pass to read, which is what the thread is about. And I have not seen any non-contracted writers coming on here and demanding a contract, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Webnovel being "exploitative" as LilyK claimed (and which Cantiara responded to, and you responded to her).

                                                                              Tomoyuki

                                                                              If you're talking about, college-level sports, well I can understand the thought, but I don't agree it's a valid comparison, in fact, I suspect college-level players are vastly underpaid. Often they give up money, to have a chance at the NFL/NBA, basketball players are currently starting to play oversea's to earn money as well. There has been a good amount of discussion on the topic, but many different viewpoints which seem interesting conflict with each other.

                                                                              Overall, whichever stance you have on it, It's just too complex to compare to a WN contract, in my viewpoint. I don't agree that WN has too much of a standard when it comes to giving contracts, which is why most of them don't earn much money past the minimum, and I don't think it's only because of pirating, though it is a huge factor on web novel.

                                                                              I never brought up the charging system or talked about, because I really don't understand it, but any and all free content in whatever amounts is a blessing for the end-user. (I did recommend the subscription system, long ago.) I'm talking about authors who think they earned money simply by writing when that's not the truth of the matter. Their many books, that have been written and have not earned a dime because the work has not been marketed, or simply is not up to standard, or its intent is not for a mass readership.

                                                                              As far as sample size, I think WN, is very liberal though they are cutting back on that ideal.

                                                                                  Cantiara

                                                                                  Tomoyuki
                                                                                  I was around when this happened. I'm more or less as aware as you unless you have some secret connections. Even then, I've seen some of the lies Qidian told over the years, so I would doubt a source from them. I read the official statement from Ren regarding the matter back around when the book went on Amazon. So, I'm not wrong. But it's his word against theirs unless they both openly display the contract. I'll take his word since I know Qidian/Webnovel have a history or dishonesty. With that aside, Coiling Dragon is not the only novel Qidian is pirating here. I've seen more than a couple authors over the years trying to get their novels taken down from here and Qidian ignored them. Prime example. https://www.webnovel.com/book/15524618305756805/The-Forgotten-Conqueror.
                                                                                  The author of this novel requested this be pulled down a while back, but it's still there. If memory serves, he refused to post it on here because he won't accept their terms. It was one of my favorite novels on Royalroad. Unfortunately, his releases are sporadic, but I think it's worth the wait.
                                                                                  As a side note. Of the other two stories shared by that same author, one of them is an mtl of a Japanese novel. A quick search gave me nothing on the third one though.

                                                                                  Tomoyuki Ah I see. I was referring to releasing them in English. When I spoke of the cost for releasing physical versions of Chinese novels, I was referring to the added cost of translating and editing them. Especially since the price of the original Chinese version in paperback appears to be $15...

                                                                                          MotivatedSloth I never expected a serious response from you. That would require logic and knowledge about the subject rather than your constant pissy rants that have almost no substance and are spread over the forum whining about how everyone who doesn't agree with you is a selfish entitled leech.

                                                                                          You should chant the line about being delusional and having a fragile ego back to yourself, kiddo.

                                                                                          There have been far more than 3 over the years, and they all lead to the same point. The price for the chapters is ridiculous. The standard argument against this statement has always been "But the authors and Webnovel need to make money!"
                                                                                          But at the end of the day, you're right about one thing. In the Original novels, it comes down to supporting the author. And if people are willing to pay, then the price is fair to them. However, with so many authors commenting on how they aren't making anything and the fact that Webnovel continually changes the system speaks for itself. Webnovel is either not making enough, or they are too greedy and just constantly looking for more ways to squeeze every single penny out of the few people who do pay. Personally, I lean towards the first option, but the second one is certainly possible. They are quite greedy.
                                                                                          The translated novels are a completely different story though.

                                                                                          First off, I said IF you feel exploited. And if you feel exploited, then I still stand by what I said. It's not the readers who are exploiting you. If someone is here complaining, that means they are following the rules, they just don't like them. People who are reading your stuff for free don't need to come here and complain about it.
                                                                                          Second.Pirates huh, like Webnovel? Who have many people's stolen work posted here. You support this site even though they are pirating, yet you want to complain about other sites that pirate. But I'm the one that's completely wrong. Interesting concept you have there.

                                                                                              lozlo I honestly don't know the truth, just what I was told, so I will not argue with you on the whole Wuxiaworld thing because I really don't have the right or knowledge to comment on the matter (I trust Cantiara, though).

                                                                                              Yeah, each individual volume of coiling Dragon is pretty expensive, and that's before you factor in translation or whatever. The Chinese copy itself is expensive, and compared to it, it seems that each individual Webnovel is cheaper? For $15, you can buy 120 chapters, which is equal to 3-4 volumes if we assume that each volume of Coiling Dragon has 30-40 chapters on average. I guess?

                                                                                              Also, from who I know, writers have no complaints about their earnings. No one is complaining that they earn too little. From the conversations I've seen, they are upset with the readers coming onto the forums and complaining that they want more free stuff, and they are worried this would reduce their earnings, that's all. Webnovel pays a fair amount, and no one is complaining about their income being too little.

                                                                                                  lozlo

                                                                                                  As I said, I'm not going to elaborate further because of the legalities involved and it's really not my place to do so. I understand you won't just take my word for it without me providing any corroborations to back my claim. So, it's fine. But things are really not as black and white as you make it seems.

                                                                                                      lozlo

                                                                                                      Seriously, there is no point in replying to you anymore, and it will be the last response from me.

                                                                                                      You do not bring any valid points. Not even a single one in neither of your responses to me (since I can't be bothered to read any other of your swea,,, writing). The fact that I'm insanelly pissed off at something IRL right now doesn't help in making me benevolent enought to waste my time on someone as disrespectfull and childish as you by writing the full calculations and real arguments I used to make while talking with others.

                                                                                                      The reason why Webnovel changes the system - look at the stocks. In their entire history, they had like 2-3 months when they operated at profit, that was actually quite marginal to the amount they are losing during the rest of their existance as the company. It's obvoius they are going to look for other ways to improve their income, because if they won't do so, their financial backers will stop funding them, and you will be left with a middle finger shoved in your face instead of so many novels that they are bringing to your life.

                                                                                                      And webnovel having pirated novels? Point me to one. Compared to other sites, they are at least taking them down if some fcker steals it and upload as his own. And look at the bright side - no one will every make ANY moeny out of pirated novels in here, because you need a contract to do so.

                                                                                                      And if you are refering to the korean novels, then surprise surprise, THEY WERE FCKING BOUGHT. The license to translate them. Thats why they shut down free translations, because they were doing something ltierally illegal (Yes, I'm looking at you, solo leveling)

                                                                                                      So please, get off your high horse and shove your opinions back to your arse, as this was their place of orgin and the only place they could gain any sort of recognition.

                                                                                                      And no, I'm not gonna bother to care about grammar. YOu aint worthy

                                                                                                          MotivatedSloth

                                                                                                          MotivatedSloth webnovel having pirated novels? Point me to one

                                                                                                          lozlo Prime example. https://www.webnovel.com/book/15524618305756805/The-Forgotten-Conqueror.
                                                                                                          The author of this novel requested this be pulled down a while back, but it's still there. If memory serves, he refused to post it on here because he won't accept their terms. It was one of my favorite novels on Royalroad. Unfortunately, his releases are sporadic, but I think it's worth the wait.

                                                                                                                  muzukashi

                                                                                                                  Has the original author (copyright holder) sent a DMCA notice to dmca@webnovel.com as well as service@webnovel.com?

                                                                                                                  If he/she hasn't then he/she should do it. They won't take the novel down without any DMCA notice. That's just how the industry works.

                                                                                                                  His/her DMCA notice should include the following:
                                                                                                                  - A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the work’s owner.
                                                                                                                  - Identification of the original work(s) that you’re claiming has been infringed upon.
                                                                                                                  - Identification of the work you’re claiming has infringed upon yours.
                                                                                                                  - Information on how the hosting provider can contact you, including phone number, address, or email.
                                                                                                                  - A statement that you do not believe the content is authorized by the copyright owner.
                                                                                                                  - A statement that the information is accurate to your knowledge under penalty of perjury.

                                                                                                                  https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/how-to-submit-dmca-takedown-notice/

                                                                                                                      Tomoyuki I'm not really trying to argue about it. I've been around and read the statements from both groups when they started. Ren made a post about it way back then, stating they had spoken to them and sent legal documentation on it. But they refused to take it down, just like every other group out there pirating popular novels. And, it's not the only one. I could write a whole paragraph on their dishonest tactics. (I actually did write one... or two... just now, and then deleted them.)

                                                                                                                      Yeah, the translated PDF version is on Amazon for like $3 a shot though. 30 for the whole series if I understand it correctly. That price would probably increase drastically for a paperback copy. And Coiling Dragon was one of the more acceptable novels. Most of the novels here shouldn't be put into print. Tian Cu Tu Dou is a prime example. I've read enough of his work over the years, but I couldn't stand to read them through to the end. Skipped large portions of some, just to get to the end, and didn't even finish others. And, that was when they were free. But that's me personally. A lot of people loved the novels, so it's anyone's guess unless it's actually released.

                                                                                                                      Ah well. I guess there were some misunderstandings across the board. I actually don't know what Qidian pays here. It's been a while, and the few authors I've spoken to in the past weren't thrilled about it, but they also weren't popular authors. Maybe things have changed, maybe you're a popular author, maybe it's way past time for me to make some breakfast. Definitely way past time for me to eat some breakfast...

                                                                                                                          Cantiara When it comes to the law, few things are ever black and white, and a lot of it isn't logical either. But, I doubt they have a contract granting them rights to his translation. So, as you said, until given some kind of actual proof, I don't see how it isn't black and white. I'm pretty sure I've seen the post in the past where Qidian(Or one of their spokesmen) claimed that having the rights to the original granted them the right to use the legally recognized official translation. If you think that makes logical sense anywhere except in a court, where rhetoric is king, then there's nothing I can say that would get through to you. It seems pretty black and white to me.

                                                                                                                              Cantiara

                                                                                                                              Cantiara If he/she hasn't then he/she should do it. They won't take the novel down without any DMCA notice. That's just how the industry works.

                                                                                                                              https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/1439/forgotten-conqueror/chapter/224627/please-read

                                                                                                                              original author put a link of the novel and was contacted by wn content team after he gave proof its been deleted going to this https://www.webnovel.com/book/10835104505183005/Forgotten-Conqueror link leads to a 404 error
                                                                                                                              but another plagiariser popped up i posted a comment in his website regarding this hope he will see it

                                                                                                                                    lozlo

                                                                                                                                    As I said, it's fine if you think that way. I'm not going to argue with you about this issue because it's really not my place to do so. But there's no need to convince me otherwise either because I know what I know, and seeing that the knowledge that you have on this issue is solely based on the official statements from both sides, then all I can say is, I know that I know about this issue more than you.

                                                                                                                                    The reason for my initial response to your post is my own inability to put up with the misconception that some (if not most) people seem to have when it comes to this novel. But I was careless. Mea Culpa. I should never have done that knowing it is not my place to say anything regarding this matter, resulting in my inability to provide evidence to support my statement, rendering this discussion totally pointless.

                                                                                                                                    So, let's just end it here. My apologies, but please don't waste your time and energy to reply to this post because when it comes to this issue, you won't get any response from me anymore.

                                                                                                                                        Cantiara It's not really an argument, nor is it a misconception, unless someone is willing to produce the contract showing that Qidian was given the rights to the translation. After all these years, it's not impossible that they have one now, since things change.

                                                                                                                                        Your argument that I can think how I want but you know the truth because you heard stuff you can't mention from a source you can't list is kind of like my little brother, who committed a crime, multiple actually, and got caught, then accepted the plea deal. But he tried to change the story in private and act like he only accepted it because he couldn't fight the system. Some people actually believed him too. What can you say in that situation? Caught dead to rights, even admits it, but people want to believe it's not true.
                                                                                                                                        The unfortunate part in all of this, in both cases, is that I didn't deem it necessary to copy down the proof, so I can't actually produce it anymore. It's my word that the posts were made against your word that you know unmentionable things.

                                                                                                                                            MotivatedSloth That's a rather interesting statement considering the fact that if you'd actually read what I said you wouldn't need to have me point you to a novel that is being pirated on here. Someone else already used my post as a reply to show you though. But yeah, I'm the one with no valid points when you aren't even reading the posts.
                                                                                                                                            To top it off, you basically said I'm right about why they change their systems and that it isn't working very well.

                                                                                                                                            You're just spouting nonsense to inflate your fragile ego. Get off your high horse and shove your opinions back in your arse, as this was their place of origin and the only place they could gain recognition.
                                                                                                                                            And, no worries, I don't need to complain about your grammar, only your source. It's quite smelly. I guess you've grown so accustomed to it that you don't notice the smell though.

                                                                                                                                                lozlo As Muzukashi pointed out, this isn't Webnovel pirating, it's some idiot doing it. Webnovel has taken down the first pirated version of Forgotten Conqueror, and ANOTHER plagiarizer popped up to post a new version again.

                                                                                                                                                This isn't Webnovel's fault, and I think it's absurd to blame the company for the actions of individuals. I'm certainly not blaming Amazon for plagiarism or stealing my novel, I'm blaming the IP thief (in this case, Jamie Carter) for it.

                                                                                                                                                Apparently, it seems that the Chinese version of Battle Through the Heavens, The Great Ruler and Wu Dong Qian Kun sold very well in paperback, by the way. So there is definitely a market for them.

                                                                                                                                                    It's crazy how some people that have never written anything in their life are able to say confidently that a webnovel should be worth less because it is unprofessional or amateurish.

                                                                                                                                                    -First: Webnovel is a concept: Writting raw, unedited content. It is litterally as if you're reading the first draft version of a future saga in the become.

                                                                                                                                                    Do you think JK Rowling first drafts of Harry Potter were better? It is not so sure and even if they were, she wrote less than 500 words a day except for the first book. So quite the slow writer, compared to the 2000 words someone was saying above.

                                                                                                                                                    How many people though would have been ready to pay tens or hundreds of $ just to have a first draft daily chapter instead of waiting 3 years for a perfectly edited book?
                                                                                                                                                    Many.

                                                                                                                                                    Here you're paying for a raw unedited(for those that can't afford it) work. Once it is finished, though, at least you can rework it. Not every author will do it, but i think none of those who don't will tell you that their finished webnovel is perfect and ready for paperback publishing.

                                                                                                                                                    Second: Paperback publishing give birth to very standardized stories. Not everything can have the chance to be published this way. Some of my favorites novels are flawed Webnovels. I have gladly paid for them.

                                                                                                                                                    Third: If 100% of the readers paid for their premium chapters instead of going to pirate websites the chapter price would not be so high, since according to Webnovel only 10 to 30% of the readers are ready to support a novel financially. By donations system like Patreon, it is less than 1% if there's nothing appalling (like privilege chapters).

                                                                                                                                                      Arkinslize Actually, it would be easier for more readers to pay if the prices of chapters are cheaper. I can sympathize with them, and I don't demand that they pay to read my stuff - I encourage them to use free pass, because I'm more invested in seeing people enjoy my stories than I am in making money (I am aware that some of the higher ranked authors have criticized me on this and accused me of lacking ambition). And quite honestly, because I personally enjoy writing as a hobby. If they deem my story not good enough to pay for it, then I don't blame them. As I said, money is not a concern, and if they don't enjoy reading my story, I don't want them to waste their time forcing themselves to read it (it baffles me that people who claim that they hate my story sometimes continue reading it and repeating how much they hate it over and over again - why torture yourself like this?). However, I am not deluded enough to think my story is worth half of what a Black Library novel is priced, because I obviously am not a professional writer, my editing is sloppy (I have no editors at all), my plot is non-existent and I'm pretty much a poor, incompetent and stubborn author if I were to be honest about myself.

                                                                                                                                                      So I think even 10% of my readers "supporting" me is already a miracle in itself. I also know for sure that more would pay if the prices were cheaper (I think?). Assuming each of my chapters cost 20-24 cents, that's about $6-$7 a month they are paying for 30 chapters, which is about 1/3 of a price of a Black Library novel of similar length. Am I even 1/3 as good as a professional author, though? Definitely not. Also, that's just me alone. What if these readers have other books to read? They surely can't be reading my book alone, right? If they are reading like 8-10 books on the website, that's easily about $30-50 a month, even if you take into account the daily 3 Free Passes a day. Given the target audience, which is teenagers to young adults, there ain't no way they are gonna afford that.

                                                                                                                                                      So there is definitely a case to be made for bringing down the prices. I know authors earn less from the unlimited reading subscription model, so most of them will protest against that, but I'm probably the only one, or among the minority who is all for it because I don't earn anything to begin with anyway (and unlike what Forsaken would have you believe, I'm not deluded enough to think I deserve or am entitled to some form of payment even when nobody reads my stories).

                                                                                                                                                        Tomoyuki That type of logic is exactly why I laugh when I see anyone on here complaining about pirating somewhere else.

                                                                                                                                                        Even if you don't blame them the first time, they can't escape some responsibility the second time and so on.
                                                                                                                                                        Or, do you think it's fine to repost someone else's story repeatedly as long as the link on your website is different? Do you really think saying "It's the fault of the authorized user we allowed to post it!" each time it happens actually resolves them of fault for doing the same thing over and over again? It's not like it's an accident or mistake that has only happened once or twice.
                                                                                                                                                        It's actually a fairly simple tactic to force people into putting the story up here, but proving that is their intent is nearly impossible so that can only be said as an opinion at the moment.

                                                                                                                                                        But, I dare you to tell me that it's okay to ignore a DMCA for almost a year or more, or to take it down and then relist it here with the same name and a different link while proclaiming "We didn't know, it's the fault of the people who post here."
                                                                                                                                                        I can actually provide you with a link for a translator turned author who has a long rant about Qidian that is dated about a year ago, but could be older because of site revamps, with part of it talking about them not taking down his popular story for over 9months after his DMCA. Even after he had enough money to get a lawyer involved, they still hadn't taken it down. It's actually down now, but I'm pretty sure I checked it at the over a year mark and still saw it up. Even if we toss that out, over 9 months. Please, defend that. I want to see it. Give me some of that pirate logic. Explain to me how it's okay for them to let people post pirated work here, ignore DMCA's until the series loses popularity, then maybe take it down, and even allow it to be reposted.

                                                                                                                                                        Maybe you think there's a difference. And, I guess in a minor way there is. But that's the same as compairing beer and hard liquor with the belief that beer isn't as bad because the concentration is different. Or arguing that mixed drinks are different because the liquor has been diluted with whatever your non-alcoholic drink of choice is. They still get you drunk. The main difference is which one you prefer.

                                                                                                                                                            lozlo I don't think it's fine, but that's kind of a ridiculous statement to make. Unless there's a Qidian staff member who checks each and every story to make sure it wasn't posted elsewhere (that's one aspect that Royal Road is very good at, and something Webnovel can learn from), there is absolutely nothing they can do about bots or thieves reposting stolen stories.

                                                                                                                                                            I don't steal someone's Warhammer 40,000 army, post it on Ebay and sell it to other people, and then blame Ebay for allowing me to sell stolen stuff. That's just freaking ridiculous. Obviously it's the thief who should get punished, not Ebay. And similarly, until they adopt the same anti-plagiarism system that Royal Road has, you can't possibly expect Webnovel to check each and every story for plagiarism (and they get what, a hundred new stories a day?).

                                                                                                                                                            When someone stole my story and pirate it on Amazon, I don't blame Amazon. I blame it on the bloody IP thief. If it happens again, I will send Amazon another report and get it taken down again. But I will not blame Amazon and pretend, like you, that it's Amazon's responsibility, and that it's their fault somehow that bots or thieves repeatedly steal my story and sell it on there. What is Amazon supposed to do? Hire private investigators to check through the content of everyone who self-publishes?

                                                                                                                                                            And I think you are clearly deluded if you think it's Webnovel who "forces" people to repost the story here, or encourages people to post the story here. You can ask the staff and they probably haven't even heard of Forgotten Conqueror before.

                                                                                                                                                            I am not defending Webnovel. I just think you are just...misguided and pointing fingers at the wrong people. In your haste to accuse and demonize Webnovel, you conveniently defend the pirates, the actual culprits who do the stealing. Even if you didn't mean to do that, you're basically implying that it's all right for pirates to plagiarize stories on Webnovel because somehow Webnovel is the greater evil here and also pirates, so we (writers on Webnovel) have no right to criticize or call pirates out because somehow Webnovel encourages piracy (and I don't speak for Webnovel, I speak for my own work).

                                                                                                                                                            lozlo That type of logic is exactly why I laugh when I see anyone on here complaining about pirating somewhere else.

                                                                                                                                                            I don't get why you laugh at writers who are enraged that their works are plagiarized. Plagiarism and IP theft is illegal, and it sucks no matter who it happens to. Writers are not Webnovel. I do not speak for Webnovel, and I am not Webnovel, so it makes no sense for you to gloat over how I get ripped off and plagiarized just because apparently some idiot plagiarizes a novel on Webnovel. You are basically saying that I have no right to make a report to Amazon, or complain that someone plagiarized my story on Amazon because...some other author (and not me) also did it on Webnovel. As if that absolves the IP thief of any blame altogether and deprives me the right to complain or feel wronged about it. Obviously, I do not endorse or defend the bastards who keep reposting Forgotten Conqueror, but you make it sound like I am the same as them, and therefore not allowed to call anyone else out on plagiarism by virtue of me posting on Webnovel alone.

                                                                                                                                                            How does that even make sense?

                                                                                                                                                            I also don't understand what the beer or liquor example has to do with anything.

                                                                                                                                                                  Tomoyuki I laugh at people who throw out excuses about how it's okay for Webnovel to ignore DMCA's, but want to take the moral high ground when another pirating site does it. Note that, ANOTHER pirating site. I view this as a pirating site. They "allow" pirating here until you're caught in a manner where there is no way for them to continue ignoring it. Then they WAIT for an indefinite about of time to act, if they act. But you want me to believe that it's not pirating. It's the users fault. If I made a site and let people pirate the novels from here, but had a DMCA link so you could report it, and waited 9+ months to take things down, then let them repost it a couple days later, if not immediately, would you actually support that? Wouldn't you say I was pirating? If so, then why the hell should I not laugh at the hypocrisy when people support a site that does that while condemning other sites that do it?
                                                                                                                                                                  If you went to prison as a visitor and were listening to a parent, whose child was in jail for committing a crime, gossiping about someone else's child who had committed the exact same crime on a larger scale, would you not see the irony and hypocrisy? I certainly would. And I wouldn't think their child was a good kid just because they committed the crime on a smaller scale.

                                                                                                                                                                  I don't support Webnovel or the other sites that pirate. I can see why you might feel that I'm supporting them, but I don't support either. If this wasn't a site created and run by dishonest people, we'd be having a completely different conversation. In your eyes, telling the truth about Webnovel means I support the other pirates. But in my eyes, telling you the truth about Webnovel is pointing out the flaws to see if they, or others, will even THINK about it. Or if they will just toss out excuses about why it's different when they are the ones pirating.

                                                                                                                                                                  As for Amazon, I don't use them, so I don't know the particulars for what happens when there is an issue of theft there. And I would think they do some level of validation on things with copyrights, even if it's a fairly low level, but maybe they don't.

                                                                                                                                                                  The beer or liquor example is about two things that are roughly the same but look different. Some people like to argue about which one is better or worse than the other for lots of different reasons. To me, they are the same.

                                                                                                                                                                      lozlo But nobody is making excuses that it's okay for Webnovel to ignore DMCA? Who ever said that? Cantiara did not, she merely mentioned that the legal process was more complicated than you made it out to be, and that it wasn't a simple "Webnovel stole the translations!" thing. That in no way meant "it's all right for Webnovel to ignore DCMA!"

                                                                                                                                                                      And if you're referring to MotivatedSloth, he never said it's all right for Webnovel to ignore DMCA either. He's expressing his annoyance at people who go to pirate sites and read his work for free - work that he put hours of effort into working, and him being in serious need of cash, he relies on his writing to make a living (that might not be a good idea, but it is what it is). Of course he would be furious when people advocate going to pirate sites to read his work just because "Webnovel is unaffordable or too expensive!" If you can't afford it, then don't read. it doesn't justify you running off to steal his work and benefiting from the entertainment he provides while giving him nothing in return. Take note, he will not complain if you decides that his work isn't worth the money, or if you choose not to pay for it and read it. He is complaining about his work being pirated.

                                                                                                                                                                      But nobody has ever said it's all right for Webnovel to ignore DMCA.

                                                                                                                                                                      If you made a site, and people pirate the novels from here on your site, and take them down, only for people to repost them a couple of days later, the writers will send you the DMCA and ask you to take it down again. Not blame you. How the f are you responsible for what people post on your site? Obviously writers are going to give you, the site owner, the benefit of the doubt - and take note, legally wise you are not responsible for what people post on your site. Not unless those people are your employees or agents, and unless we can prove that they are working for you, no one can hold you legally responsible for it. Not only is that how the law works, that's also bloody common sense. Not unless you make a claim that you personally run checks (or hire people to do so) on each and every work that people post on your site, or you confess to having hired people to steal works from other sites and post it on your site. If people choose to steal and reupload on your site, then that's on them, not you the site owner. What part of this logic do you not understand? You admit that you don't know the particulars for what happens on Amazon, but you do not seem to deny the validity of my example regarding it.

                                                                                                                                                                      Also, I don't get your prison and parent example, because it makes no bloody sense. Again, the writers here on Webnovel are NOT Webnovel. The original authors on this site are genuine writers who do not pirate. What you are essentially doing is generalizing and judging all authors on Webnovel, regardless of what they write, as pirates. Like how did you come to that conclusion? Because a few bad eggs did it, then all writers on Webnovel - by virtue of their association - are automatically pirates, and thus it is hypocritical for us to complain about being plagiarized? Let me use your prison and parent example then - so if I get assaulted by a criminal, I am not allowed to report the criminal to the police because my child has assaulted another victim? By virtue of my child having assaulted others, I should suck it up and let people assault me even though I'm not my child and did not commit the crime my child did? And if I get assaulted, I should suck it up and not complain about it or report it because my child did it? What kind of logic is that?

                                                                                                                                                                      So if my child is a murderer, it's all right for someone else's child to murder me and I have no right to protest against that at all? Because that is exactly what you're saying here.

                                                                                                                                                                      I don't even know what the whole beer or liquor thing is or what it has to do with anything. What's better than what? What's the same as what but look different? What are you even trying to prove with this analogy?

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