Why does GhostyZ manage to violate the rules of the webnovel freely and in an increasingly blatant way, including posting images with pornographic content on the cover of his fanfic?

Does the webnovel really not intend to do anything about GhostyZ by constantly posting fanfics until around chapter 40 (ignoring the 30 patreon advertising chapters and asking for powerstones) and then making them exclusive to his patreon?

Besides simply being absurd for someone to post more chapters asking for powerstones than real content, it is obviously a crime to monetize fanfics.

To make matters worse recently he created a new fanfic in which the cover is clearly pornographic content and no matter how many times we denounce it, the webnovel seems to do nothing.

For the love of god, there are children on this site and so we have a fanfiction at the top of the ranking in which the cover appears a porn image of Artoria from Fate / grand order.

Fanfic link: https://www.webnovel.com/book/endless-path-infinite-conquering_19771092206338505

    Also, you're not supposed to be allowed to ask for Patreon donations for a fanfic. Making money off fanfiction is illegal.

      Tomoyuki You are not allowed to sell or market any copyrighted materials. Patreon is neither of these so it's perfectly fine. What they are subscribing to is the author and not the product, incentive is irrelevant.

      It is the same way free translators could accept donations and offer bonus chapters etc, but could not sell or paywall the material itself without a license.

        Wolfick I don't know, but I'm looking at the Terms of Use on Patreon, which can be located here.

        Specifically under the All About Being a Creator section:

        Restrictions

        We don’t allow creations and benefits that violate our policies. You can learn more by visiting our Community Guidelines and Benefit Guidelines. A summary of those rules is that we don’t allow:
        Illegal creations or benefits.
        Creations or benefits that are abusive towards other people.
        Creations or benefits that use others' intellectual property, unless you have written permission to use it, or your use is protected by fair use.
        Creations or benefits with real people engaging in sexual acts.
        Benefits that involve raffles or prizes based on chance.

        And also under Your Creations section:

        To summarize: You keep complete ownership of all creations, but you give us permission to use them on Patreon. Make sure you have permission to use creations that you offer on Patreon.
        You keep full ownership of all creations that you offer on Patreon, but we need licenses from you to operate Patreon effectively.

        By posting creations on Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your creation. The purpose of this license is strictly limited to allow us to provide and promote memberships to your patrons. We will never try to steal your creations or use them in an exploitative way.

        You may not post creations that infringe others' intellectual property or proprietary rights.

        Patrons may not use creations posted by creators in any way not authorized by the creator.

          Tomoyuki I suggest you read that closer yourself.

          Creations or benefits that use others' intellectual property, unless you have written permission to use it, or your use is protected by fair use.

          This is specifically to prevent a person simply copying someone else's work then creating a patreon page around it.

          You can read more on it here:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_with_fan_fiction

          Fan writers who argue that their work is legal through the fair use doctrine use specific fair use arguments in the context of fan works, such as:
          Fan works do not deprive the owner of the source material of income
          Fan works may work as free advertisement and promotion of the original source material
          Fan works are usually non-profit.
          Fan works do not copy, or attempt to substitute for, the original work.

          Fair use is not black and white, and is decided on a case by case basis when an issue crops up. As things stand at the moment, fanfiction is considered fair use and it is indeed transformative (as long as you aren't selling the product itself obviously)

          This is why you are allowed to write fanfiction and post it anywhere in the first place (as long it that does not infringe on the local rules and guidelines of where you are posting it)

          Tomoyuki To summarize: You keep complete ownership of all creations, but you give us permission to use them on Patreon. Make sure you have permission to use creations that you offer on Patreon.

          A fanfiction writer does not own the characters/setting/world etc... but they do own original content included within it as well as that particular piece of writing. Stealing someone's fanfiction is still considered theft, after all.

          They are also stating that you are giving them permission to distribute the content you are uploading (this kind of thing has been around for a long time now, and it is essentially just legal toilet paper to wipe their a.ss with in case there are issues later)

          Tomoyuki You may not post creations that infringe others' intellectual property or proprietary rights.

          Patrons may not use creations posted by creators in any way not authorized by the creator.

          This is the same as before, and is patreon specifically stating they do not accept piracy in any way, and doing so will get your account warned or directly banned.

          It is the same reason why Webnovel can't simply take the unlicenced translations of Qidian's books. The translator doesn't have legal grounds to translate and especially sell that translation, nor do they own the book, but they do in essence own "this particular translation".

            Sythcake Not to the content. You are subscribing to the creator's services, not the product itself. These are two separate things.

            You can charge an entry fee to a venue and still offer free drinks inside.

            Edit: If they placed an individual price on posts themselves you had to purchase to unlock, then it would be considered a paywall on the product and no longer under the protection of fair use due to profiteering. It would still need a copyright claim to determine fair use, but I am certain it would basically be instantly approved as copyright infringement and not fair use.

              Wolfick I suggest you read what you posted closer yourself.

              Wolfick Fan works do not deprive the owner of the source material of income
              Fan works may work as free advertisement and promotion of the original source material
              Fan works are usually non-profit.

              The moment you start accepting "donations" for your fanfiction, it is no longer "free" and "non-profit". Especially when you lock chapters behind paywalls on Patreon (and yes, fanfiction writers like GhostyZ do that, which is why you have these complaints in the first place).

              Wolfick If they placed an individual price on posts themselves you had to purchase to unlock, then it would be considered a paywall on the product and no longer under the protection of fair use due to profiteering.

              That is exactly what is happening, my friend. Basically writers like GhostyZ lock their chapters behind individual posts that can only be unlocked if you pay, similar to how Webnovel locks individual chapters. In fact, the Webnovel system (premium chapters and Privilege) is heavily borrowed from Patreon in the first place. Privilege, just like Patreon, caters to several tiers of donors/consumers, who get more bonuses the more they pay/donate.

              Just look at his Patreon page, for example. If you want to read anything, anything at all, you need to subscribe for a monthly fee to unlock his posts. And apparently he only promises to do a mass release if you pay him x amount of dollars. I don't know how to differentiate "creator's services" from "the product itself" in this case, because you are literally paying to read his product (which are the chapters). Are the written chapters not the product you pay for?

              This is completely different from say, if I were to already have a bunch of chapters posted and accessible online for free, and you decide to donate to me because you think I deserve a treat for what I did (maybe you tell me to go buy myself a cup of coffee). I'm not offering a product for sale in this case, but you think I deserve a treat in exchange for providing you some entertainment, and you're trying to encourage me to write new chapters in future (which is different from me withholding existing chapters behind a paywall).

                Wolfick Although your lawyering is on point, this sort of sophistry wouldn’t fly in a court.)

                  Tomoyuki

                  Tomoyuki The moment you start accepting "donations" for your fanfiction, it is no longer "free" and "non-profit". Especially when you lock chapters behind paywalls on Patreon (and yes, fanfiction writers like GhostyZ do that, which is why you have these complaints in the first place).

                  First, and once again, services and products are two different things. As for selling the specific content, I already explained it with an example before. Specifically:

                  You can charge an entry fee to a venue and still offer free drinks inside.

                  Just because you charge an entry fee doesn't mean the drinks are no longer being offered free.

                  Tomoyuki which is why you have these complaints in the first place

                  So why are you complaining about something which is in no relation with yourself? Tbh, this is actually the first time I have seen someone complaining that posting fanfiction on patreon is copyright infringement.

                  The Webnovel system as a whole doesn't heavily borrow from Patreon, it is a direct inheritance from the Qidian system, which has been around far longer than Patreon. As for some specific commonalities such as paying to read ahead (Privilege), this is the like a person who made a chair complaining that someone else who also made a chair copied them.

                  Tomoyuki Basically writers like GhostyZ lock their chapters behind individual posts that can only be unlocked if you pay, similar to how Webnovel locks individual chapters

                  Are you talking about posting on Patreon, or another site which sells the product itself like webnovel does for it's chapters? They are two different things.

                  Patreon = Subscribing to a person and their services
                  Webnovel = Subscribing to a product

                  Don't get me wrong, for all intents and purposes this GhostyZ may be using otherwise contemptible means to try and get you to subscribe to them, but it is still subscribing to them as an individual (as long as it is through patreon).

                  This isn't to defend any particular person's honor or anything, but you can pay someone to write you a fanfiction, because you are purchasing their services rather than the product, and they are not in breach of copyright until they, or you, explicitly sell the content as a product.

                  There is a lot of gray area in fair use, and whether accepting donations is to be constituted as profiteering off a particular product, a claim by the IP holder must first be made. Then the individual must either defend under fair use and prove it to be so, while the IP holder does the opposite.

                  Just because your subjective opinion of "by accepting donations, it is no longer free" does not mean it is no longer fair use, and until such a claim is made by the IP holder, it will remain under fair use. (Again, until explicitly sold as a product)

                  P.S. I'm not being biased or simply just against you, as the argument that he is using it as a product, and by extension no longer under fair use, can indeed be made. But that is not for you or me to make a claim against nor determine the validity thereof. People do far more contemptible things to earn money than toeing the line of fair use,

                    Sythcake This is exactly how a fair use claim runs in court. It's very expensive, which is why most wouldn't do it and instead come to a private agreement (usually resulting in taking down the work), and very messy with a lot of supposition.

                    Also, I am obviously no lawyer.

                    As for sophistry and whether it counts as a person's services or a product, that is mainly what such a case would be used to determine. (Of course, the sophistry of providing equivalent examples wouldn't fly in court though, even though it is not technically fallacious/sophistry)

                      I wonder why the fact he's earning money on patreon became more important than the fact he's publishing something with the tags incest and rape on Webnovel, as if it was entertaining things to make other perverts as himself to turn their brains into sewage water as his brain obviously is.
                      I thought the vetting process served for something...but it seems it doesn't.
                      @WEBNOVEL_OFFICIAL it's reported already, what are you doing about it?

                        SrtaA There is nothing wrong with the tags, but the content and how it is done. I am all for creative freedom, but it should be within the rules of the platform obviously.

                        For all intents and purposes, a lot of novels have rape in them. One of the classic xianxia tropes is the forced rape cliche, in which "she's poisoned and the only way for me to save her is the have sx with her".

                        I am actually completely against this portrayal of it. My viewpoint is that if someone is including a rape theme in their book, it should not be... well, for lack of a better word, excused. It's a bit of gray area though.

                        I am also against explicit rape scenes involving themes of grief. I find them revolting, and if his book contains that, +1 to reports.

                        As for incest... well, I'm mostly indifferent. Porn has teased with these themes since day 1 (step sister, step mom, step dad etc...). Plenty of Japanese works don't even bother to pretend a fake blood relation. A lot of light novels also contain incest themes, and they are targeted towards teens/young adults.

                          Wolfick Just because you charge an entry fee doesn't mean the drinks are no longer being offered free.

                          You're not even supposed to be allowed to charge an entry fee for a venue you don't own in the first place. Reminds me of those bandits who try to extort money from you because you cross a road that they claim is their territory (but obviously it isn't). If you want to use that as an analogy, you have to take note that the original creator is basically the landlord, and fanfiction authors can't just go into a venue and charge entry fees for a property they don't own. It's illegal to begin with.

                          Wolfick So why are you complaining about something which is in no relation with yourself? Tbh, this is actually the first time I have seen someone complaining that posting fanfiction on patreon is copyright infringement.

                          GhostyZ has been notorious for doing this, this isn't the first time it has been brought up in the forums. It's like the third time in maybe three years. Also, I was simply addressing Sky_sorvering's complaints.

                          A quick search on the forum will give you these links: https://forum.webnovel.com/d/27674-ghostyz-the-harem-god-is-a-disgusting-author
                          https://forum.webnovel.com/d/27666-is-author-ghostyz-scamming-his-followers

                          Wolfick Patreon = Subscribing to a person and their services
                          Webnovel = Subscribing to a product

                          So if you post a chapter on Webnovel/Inkstone, it becomes a product, but somehow if you post it on Patreon it suddenly becomes a service and is subject to other rules? I'm not sure if that makes sense?

                          If I sell bottled water in Seven Eleven, it's a product, but just because I sell bottled water in a Church, that doesn't suddenly turn it into a service. People are still paying me for the water, and not for my services of carrying the bottles to the Church.

                          Wolfick This isn't to defend any particular person's honor or anything, but you can pay someone to write you a fanfiction, because you are purchasing their services rather than the product,

                          What exactly is the difference between paying for a fanfiction chapter and paying someone to write you a fanfiction chapter? Semantics aside, you get an identical product.

                          Wolfick and until such a claim is made by the IP holder

                          Honestly, the IP Holder (MF Bunko J or Dengeki Bunko in this case) wouldn't be bothered to sue him for English fanfiction. That said, you have Japanese companies suing fansubbers and shutting down their sites even though they are doing it for free (no donations), so they can do it. It's just that they most likely wouldn't bother because quite frankly, it's not worth the trouble.

                          But if they do, he's basically screwed. There is nothing he can say in his defense, no fair use, nothing.

                          SrtaA it's reported already, what are you doing about it?

                          Nobody is commenting on it because the story has already been removed. If you click on the link, it'll give you a dead link. So Webnovel has already done something about it.

                            Tomoyuki

                            Tomoyuki You're not even supposed to be allowed to charge an entry fee for a venue you don't own in the first place. Reminds me of those bandits who try to extort money from you because you cross a road that they claim is their territory (but obviously it isn't). If you want to use that as an analogy, you have to take note that the original creator is basically the landlord, and fanfiction authors can't just go into a venue and charge entry fees for a property they don't own. It's illegal to begin with.

                            I don't understand this at all. Patreon is the metaphorical venue, the posts on Patreon the free drinks, and the subscription the metaphorical entry fee. You are calling the IP holder the venue and fanfiction writers gatecrashers, which isn't making sense to me at all as I don't see the relation as to why the IP holder is a "venue".

                            Tomoyuki So if you post a chapter on Webnovel/Inkstone, it becomes a product, but somehow if you post it on Patreon it suddenly becomes a service and is subject to other rules? I'm not sure if that makes sense?

                            If you explicitly sell that chapter as a product, yes. If you sell your services in that "only my subscribers can see my creations" but aren't selling the chapters themselves, then no, you aren't selling a product.

                            https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/other/products-and-services/#:~:text=What%20are%20Products%20and%20Services,of%20one%20or%20more%20individuals.&text=In%20fact%2C%20a%20majority%20of,them%20an%20element%20of%20service.

                            Perhaps I was misleading without intending to be. The chapters/posts are products regardless of where they are posted, but the model is different. On webnovel, you pay specifically in exchange for the product (i.e the chapters), on Patreon, you subscribe to the creator and their service of creating content, but not any specific product itself.

                            Tomoyuki What exactly is the difference between paying for a fanfiction chapter and paying someone to write you a fanfiction chapter? Semantics aside, you get an identical product.

                            Service and product is the difference. In one, you are purchasing the product, which in the case of fanfiction means you would no longer be in fair use. The other, you are purchasing the writer's service of writing something, which they are completely free to sell to you.

                            It's not just semantics. They are legally identified as two separate things.

                            Tomoyuki you have Japanese companies suing fansubbers and shutting down their sites even though they are doing it for free (no donations)

                            This is mostly done by english publishers, such as funimation, and yes it isn't worth the trouble. Also, fansubs aren't under fair use by the simple fact in that they are not transformative. This is the same with novel translations, and are a completely different category from fanfictions so you can't really compare apples and oranges.

                            Tomoyuki If I sell bottled water in Seven Eleven, it's a product, but just because I sell bottled water in a Church, that doesn't suddenly turn it into a service. People are still paying me for the water, and not for my services of carrying the bottles to the Church.

                            If you sell the bottle of water then you are selling a product. If you are giving them away for free in a church, even if you are accepting donations, you are not selling the product itself. Even if the church charged $2 for whoever to come inside and you were paid a small commission for your volunteer work, you still aren't selling bottles of water. Well, that's getting convoluted so let me provide another example:

                            There are a huge number of YouTubers who make a living off creating reaction videos, in which they react to clips of others/memes etc... They can do this, and make money off them, because they're protected under fair use. They can't sell the video itself, but they can be sponsored and/or generate ad revenue, they can also release these videos on patreon which has less restrictions than YouTube.

                            For those who step too far out from fair use, or aren't transformative enough, they can indeed be sued for copyright infringement, which has been done before multiple times. MxRplays is a prime example of this.

                            This however is not for us to determine.

                            Tomoyuki GhostyZ has been notorious for doing this, this isn't the first time it has been brought up in the forums. It's like the third time in maybe three years. Also, I was simply addressing Sky_sorvering's complaints.

                            And he may indeed be a contemptible person, I don't know. But that doesn't make fanfiction, nor posting it on patreon, no longer under fair use and direct copyright infringement. If it was, Patreon would have been shut down or forced to reject all "fair use" materials long ago.

                              Wolfick oh, okay. I'm not a lawyer, so I'll just concede here because I realize this is getting way over my head and you're most likely right. I won't claim that I'm totally convinced, but I think your arguments about Patreon's model being different makes sense, and I'm just confusing myself unnecessarily.

                              And I think your YouTuber example makes sense because I know of Starcraft 2 and Warhammer 40,000 content creators (Lowko, WinterSEO) who have Patreon pages for their gamer channels. I think they have it on Twitch too, apparently.

                                Wolfick Fair use is a super grey-area.

                                While I might be wrong here, if the product that you want to use under fair use cannot be wholesome (full) without the OG content, its not considered fair use at all. Just like watching a 30s viral vid (that's 30s long in total) to add commentary is an infringement (since one can watch the entire thing on your commentary channel rather than on the channel that owns the vid) it cannot be brought under fair use. There are several cases of this kind of claim being successfully pursued.

                                Now, let's look at the fanfictions.

                                But before doing so, let's take a look at the novels itself.

                                In my opinion, a novel in essence can be divided into 4 parts
                                - Plot - which is basically the storyline
                                - Characters - who are the driving point of the storyline
                                - Worldbuilding - which is the background for the characters to drive the storyline
                                - Glue - everything else that's added as decoration.

                                Fanfictions can start from using just worldbuilding, then there are those who take the characters as well.

                                Now, let's look at a certain group of authors (Btw, Tolkien was one of them). Some authors are not writers per se, but avid worldbuilders that write novels to share the worlds they created. To bring Tolkien to the example, its often jokingly said that he wrote LotR series just to flex the languages he created for it.

                                That means, if you were to write a basic fanfiction, one using ONLY worldbuilding, and wrote it from the novel created by a worldbuilder, then you would be taking the most important part of the novel for yourself (the background, the rules of the world, the nations, the predetermined beliefs and all) and writing a product on it.

                                And that's where the crux of the problem lies. ANy author can claim that they are worldbuilder, making any fanfiction illegal even with the Fair Use, due to the fact that in order to write a fanfiction, you need to infringe of the most important part of the greater whole of the novel.

                                To put it in yet another example, imagine a company wanting to create a phone. But since they can't or don't want to be bothered with the groundwork, they take the newest iPhone, gut its insides out, change the outer cover and release it as a new phone. While looks are important part of the iPhone (and are not replicated in the fake) the insides are still protected by the IP and patents, making what said company would attempt illegal.

                                That means, no matter what, all fanfictions can be treated as IP infringement. As long as they are free of charge, not an literal copy and all, no one will pay any mind to them (that is, if they do not result in loss for the IP owner). But the thing is...

                                Fck the service and product thing. When the push comes to shove, both fanfic writing as a product and writing a fanfic as a service are using foreign IP without the right to do so and are obtaining profits from it. It doesn't matter whether its a donation, fee, subscription or anything else. In the face of law, you are generating income basing on the copyright you do not own.

                                In short words, no matter what kind of fanfiction you write, as soon as the IP holder of the OG content learns about it, they are free to sue you and take ALL the income you EVER earned from the fanfiction + penalty fee + judicial costs + judged amount. Because it was all generated with their IP as a foundation.

                                And it doesn't matter how much of it will you use.

                                Just like a company cannot suddenly come up with IphoneYay series and start selling it to the public while pretending to be a branch of apple, you can't benefit in any way or form from someone else IP. Because the income you create isn't sourced from your skills and efforts alone. You do not need to promote the fanfic, you do not need to promote the brand. You just take the existing fanbase that someone had to cultivate first, and attempt to leech on it for your own benefit.

                                Ah, whenever I used 'you' I didn't mean You particularly, but the person writing fanfic. Take it as my style of writing .

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