Gosh, aren't we Just two scoops of grumpy in a bowl full of bitchy this morning? Relax, people, relax... we're all a little crazy, it isn't a competition...
I think it is time to move on from the webnovel forever.
Cantiara Thanks for the correction, because I only read comics mostly.
burntpotato some of my favorite novels are now available in novel reader you might want to read novels there its free to read. Just saying because we freeloaders are not going to afford paying for all those priviledge chapters. If you still want to read here there's authors who just loves to share there works which is usually the one I give most of my power stones to.
Heyyou Lols, that why web novels have free hundreds or so chapters, so you can check for yourself whether you'll like the writing and the plot. It's you who judge whether you'll continue or not. There's no guarantee too in restaurants whether their crafts would be at an acceptable quality, but in web novels, at least you have the first few chapters to sample. You drop if it's bad or stupid, then move on.
rainedear111 Cancer, just stop. I checked that app and it's another damn pirate. If you want to read there, go ahead. But stop dragging other people into sinning and patronizing pirates.
corales it's my opinion just chill i am giving suggestions in case people can't pay for privilege. If you got a evidence that such online novels are pirated why don't you say it in a nice way you don't have to lose your cool for this kind of issue.
Personally, I find it funny that entitled people that can afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for a few days worth of entertainment have the gall to call people that are upset with their previously free hobby being locked behind an unaffordable paywall as ”entitled”.
Oh I know, I know.. If you’re homeless, why don’t u just buy a house.
Let's not resort to name-calling, babe, though I totally agree with you here, nobody deserves to be wished this disease upon :)
rainedear111 That one is a pirated app indeed. If you read there it means you're supporting piracy. The only ones you're hurting are the authors themselves. If people keep stealing their stuff, and they can't afford to write anymore because it is not earning them anything, then they'll drop the novel, resulting in you, me, and every other reader to not be able to read the continuation of the story anymore. Promoting it to others is even worse. If someone can't afford to buy something, you don't encourage them to buy stolen goods either, do you? That's kind of the same with promoting pirated stuff.
Sythcake I may wish to have all the novels here be offered for free so those who can't afford to buy coins can enjoy them too, but that would almost certainly crush the income of the content contributors as well as business profit for Webnovel. And then, where does that lead us? No platform, no authors, no translators, no editors, no novels, and alas, no entertainment. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
You guys should stop this already, just chill out for a minute and drink some nice coffee instead.
DaoistImmortalDrag Just 1 premium novel releasing 3k words a day is now going to cost around $90 USD a year to read without passes.
Cantiara I’ll let you in on a little secret but u have to make sure to keep it between us.
Once upon a time, there was no webnovel and everyone enjoyed, here comes the forbidden word, free reading.
Fans translated the novels for other fans. Those that could afford it, donated to the translators To support their work.
New translations sprouted like mushrooms and everything went well until webnovel bulldozed in and so the shitstorm began. Spirit stones, coins, paywalls, oh and here’s a virtual tree for 5$.
I don't want to people to think I'm advertising piracy or something like that, but hear me out.
If people who complain here say things like wanting to read in another site, because they don't want to pay for content, then Webnovel lost nothing.
If you do that, then there's no reason for anyone to suspect that you'll care about convenience and supporting the author/s of what you like to read. At the end of the day, only those who pay for chapters are who mattered.
If you read that part up there, that's basically what Webnovel's telling people with their actions. Not realising that the reason the number of readers who pay increase is because of having a community. Free users make up a majority of that community, and pushing them away hurts them.
Sure, we can take those who complain as pests that want 'free' things. But those people also read, comment, add novels to their collections and most importantly, drive the whole system forward. Imagine a novel with no readers?
As an author, I'd say the reason I still write is because people read my shit. I don't earn yet since I haven't started making my chapters premium, and that's because I want to get my story out there without blocking people who can't pay.
Even then, I saw that my novel is already being pirated. There's readers there, reading a pirated copy of a free novel. I don't know if I feel flattered or just plain confused. But why are free readers not reading free content in Webnovel?
Because there's no active community here. I'm not disregarding the couple of lurkers here, but how many posts here have hundreds of people commenting? Why are there so few people who care enough to give a like? A bigger question is: Where are the official discussion posts?
Making an effort to talk to the community is key. Telling them the reason for why something is implemented is a given for any self respecting company. Because right now, if we are all being objectively speaking, there is no other reason for implementing fast pass and removing the method of earning spirit stones other than Webnovel wanting to drive sales in the holiday season. It's vacation time, people want to read. Might as well make it so that they would have to pay for more chapters. With most novels choosing to make more chapters rather than beef up chapters with more content, fast pass is a loss.
However, if Webnovel actively promoted longer chapters instead, that would make it worth more. But there is no talk about that. I, myself, am planning to make longer chapters instead of more, but also shorter, chapters to make it easier for my readers. I'm even rewriting my novel's second volume with that in mind.
But that's the problem with Webnovel's current state. There's too little communication between the community and the governing body. If there's even an effort in their part, there would be a lot more people who would spend enough money that would make money a non issue.
Mobile games work that way, a few would carry the many. But everyone's happy with that as long as the people who own the game continuously cater to everyone in their audience. Being communicative is troublesome because of trolls, but you need to address the fans too. The people who might just become a paying customer, given enough love and value.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
DarkRay Thank you, for agreeing with me. Because thanks to your own ignorcance, you just said it's possible. We talked about 2k word chapters, and I based everything on that. So if it's nothing much as you put it, why the hell do you even argue and give me those low ass numbers? (I will show you even more, since you want to look like a champion of truth).
FYI, I never said that reading 2k chapter is impossible, stop twisting my words. I said that reading 50k words/day for 60days straight is impossible.
DarkRay 200 words per minute (I will take the lowest range). That is 2000 words per 10 minutes. It's what I clamed all along, and you are arguing with yourself now. Your point again? What is your point? All the time you are proving what I wrote.
You keep taking small parts of what I said as a complete sentence with entire logic in it. Yes, with the lowest average speed you can red a 2k words chapter in 10min, and with max average speed for educated adult (300wpm as far as I remember) you can do it in about 6.(6)minutes? So?
DarkRay Yea? I live in London
Which is one of the biggest cities in the world, just like you said. It's as picky as it indeed was with me in that case. SO let's run the proper numbers.
https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/2018-revision-of-world-urbanization-prospects.html
Urban population amounts to 55% of total population.
~7 500 000 000
This number here is flawed as its just average out of the suggestions I found here:
https://www.quora.com/How-many-towns-and-cities-are-there-in-the-world
which amounts to about 2kk. So simple calculation:
(7.5kkk*55%)/2 000 000(aprox number of cities/towns making up URBAN population) = 2062.5. I know this number is far from being right, but it's simply impossible to count exact number of cities.
And forgive me my mistake, in Poland there is no distinction between city and town, making it impossible for me to know that in English those are actually difrent words. Here, I was wrong, my bad.
But looking at the numbers above, both of our picks were as far from the truth as it could be possible, with most of the urban population of the world appearing in small towns. (yes, big cities over 4kk populaiton have in total about 10% of human population, but that leaves 45% of population in smaller places)
So just by pure luck, my esitmate is so much closer to the harsh reality that yours was.
As for commuting time, here you have it:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/521886/travel-time-spent-work-study-countries/
Not only is your claim of ONE WAY time being 1h (for the entire uk, maybe it applies to london alone) but as you can see, the entire list radiates to 30mins rather to 1h (calculaitng by men, 9 cases over 40min, 22 cases under 40min out of which 10 were under 30min)
That only proves my point not only in UK (which is laughtably small part of the world, just like every country in UE by itslef) but in the general are of OCED countries.
DarkRay And I used 2k word, which is an average? Which you said yourself?
2k words long chapters are in no way the average, I never said that myself. I could say LETS TAKE 2k/CHAP IS THE AVERAGE LENGHT OF SAID NOVEL if anything, and that also was just an assumption for the sake of theory or calculations. Don't put your words in my mouth only to prove them wrong.
DarkRay You assumed a novel between 1.5m and 3m. I basically gave you 2.4m based on average numbers?
No, you have me 2.4kk as the aproximate amount of paid words in 3kk words long novel (which is imo funny and only shows how small amount of novels you read on this site, most of them goes premium around 100chapters mark, not 300)
DarkRay We are talking about 1000+ chapters novel
Thats only your idea. We are talking about webnovel in general, while discussing A SPECIFIC case that you brough up.
DarkRay Again convoluted math, which serves no purpose.
If you don't see the purpouse in my writing, you should try harder or read further why I brough it up. And it aint convoluted at all.
Chapter legnts on average varies between 1-2k words. SO 3 free passes allows you to read daily from 3k to 6k words ON AVERAGE.
DarkRay If A guy can read 10 chapters (I will use 10 because 20 is somehow impossible for you)
Again, you are puting your words in my mouth and proving them wrong. That's silly. I stated that reading 50k or more words in a long, sustained period is impossible for your average adult, since it would take him 25x 10min (let's count 25 chapters with 2k words each, just like you wants) meaning they would have to spend 250min (ora bit over 4h) on reading alone. All acording to YOUR OWN calculations. We can bring down that number by about a third if we take the fastest reading speed, which still is on the far end of the scale of things possible to be accomplished by average adult.
DarkRay They are not charged per minute. Where the hell are you going with this?
Since explaining the number based on the cost of words didn't work, I'm trying to show you the cost of aprox time it takes to read said words.
DarkRay I can, because I have proof?
Definition of a proof - the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact
Bringing up 1, 10 or 100 users like that can't be taken as a proof. You said they are commenting so you can gauge it like that, but guess what - only a tiny part of readerbase bothers to comment on chapters, most of the time - the most active and invested part. This means that your so-called "proof" is worth nothing. And just as a reminder - your "proof" that you PICKED YOURSELF actually points out that your reader needed 6h (or 4h, I'm to lazy to go back and check) to read 25 chapters. Instead of proving something, you are showing that the most devoted reader of yours required 6 hours of reading (or 4, correct me if I'm wrong) to read 25x1.5k words (just my own guess how long your chapters are after looking at single random one) meaning they required 6 hours to read about 40k words. (based on random guess, you can easily prove me wrong by showing your average chapter lengts, then we could run proper numbers here)
DarkRay You prove my point a few times, and you don't even realize that.
You put your own words in my mouth and prove it wrong, and now you dare to claim that I did so myself? What a silly statement! xD
DarkRay No, your numbers prove people can read like that. 200wpm remember. That is 2000 word chapter per 10 minutes. That was average according to YOU! Yet you are the one with an average user who reads 5 chapters a day. You are the minority here.
No, this is the average according to google, and writing "you" on caps doesn't change that point. But other than that I agree, reading between 2k and 3k in a span of 10min is normal. Multiply it by 6 to get an hour and you get between 12k and 18k words per hour, considering that you keep your focus fully on the story. Looking at your "proof" that aint true either, since YOUR DEVOTED READER required 6 FCKIGN HOURS TO READ 40K WORDS!
With statistical info, you need to learn how it applies to real life situations. If I have nothing to eat and my boss eats three times the amount he should, then on average we are both overeating. You need to learn how the statistical info applies to real world.
DarkRay You are the minority here.
Yep, I'm the minority. I spend about 6h daily writing, 3 hours daily reading and my remaining time goes to physical activities and duties. I'm in the very small minority here that can afford this lifestyle.
DarkRay You disregard proof and create different reality.
All you are doing over and over again is taking cherrypicked data that actually proves you wrong, taking your own interpretation of it. You want proof? Here it goes (i dunno how to post images here)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650266662255329289/659002954506043403/unknown.png
As for now, I'm waiting for other, bigger authors to share their data, will upload it as soon as I get it and will have enought time to do so.
DarkRay Now I know why you did it.
Yep, to fix your own selfconfidence problem with how broken your logic is on every step that you make, how hard you are trying to prove wrong the words you say by yourself etc.
The part abuot the statistic from the website is actually where I'm wrong. Was about to finally go get some rest after 48h of working, writing, helping around the home with 5h of sleep in total. I missread the part "In the first quarter of the year, U.S. adults spent three hours and 48 minutes a day on computers, tablets and smartphones." as the general time spend on electronic devices, and took first 3 demographics from the first graph (ages from 18 to 49) with 21/29/25% repsectively and merged it into single 25%. My bad here, was too tired to indulge myself in reading the entire article so I just took what was first.
DarkRay You quote stuff, that doesn't support you.
That happened once, at the end of my 2k long elaboration.
DarkRay You make up your own numbers,
Every time I explain where they came from but you promptly ignore those parts every time You mention them.
DarkRay can CLEARLY see the statistics myself
Proved you wrong with global commute time, so another lie.
DarkRay You agree with me,
Nope, I agree only with certain right points, (like, 200 x 10 = 2000), but that doesn't give you right to even pretend that I agree with you in general
DarkRay actually prove my arguments
You can think that only because you don't even see the lapses in your logic. From the way you stated your numbers, if you see similiar ones written by me, they must be supporting you, and if you see diffrent ones that aren't in any way familiar - I must be spewing bullshit.
All in all, the ending paragraph is just a insulting rant of someone who is desperately trying to prove himself right by adpersonam. Reading it, I actually start to believe that I was mistaken by taking you seriously in the first place. If you can't even keep up the pretense of taking this topic seriously by pointing out lapses in my logic, explaining why you believe they are wrong and waiting for my response as I did, then there is no point in wasting my time on you. Anyway, thanks for providing entertainment for entire inkstone discord, now both contracted and uncontracted authors know what to think about you. Cheers!
ChuYang The problem of WN community arise from 3 aspects:
Lack of proper medium - unable to message the authors or other readers, people need to stick to commenting each other posts, making it troublesome.And this forum is INSANELY unusuable for anyone, making it hard to stick with certain topics. If you don't see a response there for 2 days, it's forever burried.
Ranting - People like you who are trying to bring some point are insanely rare here. Only with someone like you as a base, we can build a proper community, yet you can only make a single post at a time, while ranters who wants more free stuff will simply flood you out. That's also the reason - most of the contracted authors actually activelly advise to stay away from this forum because of how toxic it is, opting to make their own discords and enclose themselves within their own readerbase and coatuhors.
3 - I forgot but I'm to lazy to change the number above.
Cantiara well I never know that it was a pirated one, I just downloaded it from my android phone today since most of my favorite novels are there, it didn't came to mind that it's pirated since I did the same thing when I started to download this webnovel last 2018. I am a premium user as well as i used more than 10k worth of coins here. It's dissapointing that I can't continue to read my favorites due to high rise of fast pass needed in 1 novel. As I have been reading novels here for a long time it's normal that I got a lot of novels that I been reading for a while now and until now it's still ongoing. I understand that novelist/authors needs to be compensated for their efforts too that's why I have been buying some ss then. Of course when you buy books even used ones you know in the end you will be able to finished the book but this novels I am paying for now you don't even know when it will end. So i am asking for people to give us some slack on voicing our dissapointments so they can come up with solutions to this issue.
MotivatedSloth Nah mate, I give up. You can have it. I'm not gonna respond to your "logic". I quoted, and showed, others can decide. I see no reason to argue with a block of wood. It's Christmas so have a gift, on me. For free.
- Edited
Sythcake You know, every weekend I would go to my local gaming store. I would hang out with kids there, have games with them. I would treat them to food and drinks every week, buying each of them a can of soda or snacks, or even a burger for dinner.
But there are months when I can't afford to. When I have to pay taxes, or I bought a bunch of stuff and ended up having less money than I thought I would have for the rest of the month. Whatever the reason, I don't buy them drinks or snacks on that day. I still hang out with them. But the kids don't go up to me and demand, "hey, where's my free drink/snack?" They don't go up and tell me that they are upset that they now have to pay for their previously free soda and snacks themselves if they want them.
And these are 14-year-old kids we are talking about. Funny how they are more mature and less entitled than the readers whining here.
So yes, the people who are whining about having their free stuff taken away are entitled. If you don't want to pay for the stories or translations, then don't. But don't think that translators and writers are entitled to translate or write for free just because we used to be super-generous. We grew up, we found out that we have to pay the rent, we discovered that it was not sustainable to put in hours of labor in writing and translating for free, we realize that there a lot of better things we can do with our time than to translate or write for people who aren't actually repaying us at all. If you don't want to pay for stuff, that's fine. But don't go around acting as if we are obligated to write and translate for free just because it was so in the past. We found out that generously providing free services aren't sustainable, aren't going to put food on our table, and aren't going to pay the rent.
So why are we obligated to continue putting in hours of translating and writing for nothing in return, just so you can have your daily fix of free entertainment like before?
Reading all these posts makes me really glad that the kids I meet in real life are a lot more mature and nicer than the entitled commenters online.
Tomoyuki We all have our own opinions in the matter, nothing anyone can do about it. Besides we are all humans, we have our own likes and dislikes about the subject.