Oh and just FYI, in China all unlocked chapters for readers won't expire until two years since the date they made the purchase∠( ᐛ 」∠)＿And averagely to unlock a chapter on Qidian in China (which is of the length of 2000 Chinese characters) it takes only 0.1 yuan (the Chinese currency).
Privileged is Illegal in EES/EU
- Edited
Big_Boy Exploitative abuse:
This type occurs whereby a dominant firm using dominant position to exploit consumers without losing them through conduct like price increase and production limitation. There is no legal definition of ‘exploitative abuse’ under Article 102 but it can be taken as ‘any conduct that directly causes harm to the customers of the dominant undertaking’. Without barriers to entry, the market is likely to be self-corrected by competition because monopoly profits will attract new competitors to enter the market. However, the Guidance does suggest that the Commission will intervene where the conduct is directly exploitative of consumers (for example, charging excessively high prices).
Excessive price:
Price set significantly above the competitive level. Article 102 explicitly bans unfair pricing which has been understood as to cover the excessive pricing. The charged price must be excessive and unfair to be abusive. The test used was stated in the United Brands case that whether the charged price has no reasonable relation to the economic value of the product supplied and exceeds what the dominant undertaking would have obtained in a normal and sufficiently competitive market.
According to the EU trade legislation webnovel are in breach on article 102 of TFEU.
The fact that this business model is considered legal in China does not mean that the EU will tolerate it.
It begs the question of what will happen when this is brought to the attention of the EU trade commission.
Whether it is legal or illegal in one place and not in another...Exploiting customers is illegal every where..even if it is service..
I kind of feel like the title of this forum post is misleading. It’s your opinion that it’s illegal but nothing has been proven illegal in any court. Your throwing around accusations about legality but it’s just your interpretation of your laws. Until a recognized entity decides that it’s illegal, (not just your paid legal council), it’s irresponsible to say it’s illegal. You think it may be illegal. That’s true. It could be found to illegal in your region, that’s true.
Until then your making accusations against a company that you may be held liable for since your accusing them of impropriety in written form. It’s your opinion and your treating it as fact. That’s a little dangerous, especially if your pursuing a legal case against them. You may want to change your tactics so you don’t find yourself in legal trouble.
My guess is that your lawyer would tell you that if your persuing this suit against this company that you shouldn’t discuss this case or bash the other side publically in writing. Just a thought.
XOMatsumaeohana But it prevents us to read the daily updates and have to repurchase the chapters that you have paid for already to continue reading.
- Edited
BigMike72 I am not pursuing this as a personal matter, I have however logged a formal complaint to the EU trade commission about a breach of EU trading policy, which will hopefully result in the EU suspending Qidians right to sell their product in the EU.
I am merely reporting a firm that has in my and my legal counsel's opinion breached the TFEU.
A civilian is never libel for reporting a firm to the governing body for a breach of trading law.
Are you not familiar with trade law my friend ? Because it looks like you are just a generic qidian paid commentor.
Fact remains that Qidian(Webnovel) are the dominant firm in webnovels, and they are abusing said position for monetary gain, which is a criminal act under TFEU article 102.
KingDerp Lol, so now there is a conspiracy since I don’t agree with you. I am not paid by anyone but I find it interesting that you know so much about international law and yet failed to read the fine print and wasted your money. It sounds like sour grapes to me.
By the way, how is claiming illegal activity on public forums reporting a crime to the proper authorities? You have an opinion, gl with moving the EU to do anything about returning your “stolen” euros.
You enjoyed reading the first set of 50 chapters and got angry when contrary to your beliefs another set of 50 wasn’t coming.
Keep me updated, I would love to hear how this nailbiter ends. Something tells me that I don’t need to purchase privileges to see the outcome.
- Edited
BigMike72 This has absolutely nothing to do with money.
I was misled but not stolen from.
What else do they call it when a multinational company breaks EU trading laws ? Although English might not be my first language I don't think its wrong considering the context.
Regarding online 'micro' payments the EU has been surprisingly efficient lately, I honestly don't know what will happen. But if they do agree with the fact that Qidian is the dominant firm in the market then it is a clear cut breach of article 102 of TFEU.
I will put the legal parameters here so you can see what i mean.
Exploitative abuse:
This type occurs whereby a dominant firm using dominant position to exploit consumers without losing them through conduct like price increase and production limitation.
The breach for this clause would be increase in SS price for said pre paid chapters already, then again when the customer has to pay monthly to gain access.
Excessive price:
Price set significantly above the competitive level. Article 102 explicitly bans unfair pricing which has been understood as to cover the excessive pricing. The charged price must be excessive and unfair to be abusive.
This breach has to do with how the marketing price of Privilege chapters is priced at in the Qidian china app. 0,1 Yuan per chapter roughly.
Again this is up for discussion but the facts don't change that this is super shady and in all probability falls under a breach of article 102.
Why would the outcome matter to you anyway? Best/worst case scenario the EU forces qidian to lower their prices or quit marketing their products in EU territory.
It is never really bad for the consumer when the big multinational companies get chastised by the governing body, in most cases it is necessary to have a fair and open market....
That notwithstanding I am still a paying subscriber to said 50 privilege chapters.
KingDerp It’s not about money but you didn’t have a problem with the inflated price the first or second time you purchased stones to unlock chapters?
When you realized that you had unlocked everything you could unlock and wasted some money, now it’s unfair to charge that much or unlawful to hike the prices on people outside of China.
It’s completely about money. The outcome doesn’t effect me but your posts seemed full of self-righteousness and false piety of sticking up for what’s right.
In reality you wasted your money that you were happy to spend until it didn’t go they way you thought it should and now its all moral high ground! I personally don’t buy it.
Funny thing is that I posted on the forums my personal befiefs about this whole topic and I was critical of the company too. I just didn’t act like I was wronged after spending my money. They provided what they said they would and I enjoyed it. The problem is it’s too expensive for me to enjoy on a regular basis and I wish they would change their pricing.
Your acting like your sticking up for morals when you only had a problem with their policies and pricing when it didn’t serve your purposes or needs.
BigMike72 Not really, at this time I honestly just want the EU to ban qidian from operating on EU territory.
Since it is obvious that tencent/Qidian/Webnovel has and never will change their mo.
Are you really that daft'd that you don't think that this Privilege scheme is anything but a cheat? Same goes for all the other platforms that use similar schemes to pluck cash from your pocket.
In all seriousness I'm not angry or upset, I knew this was coming from back when Qidian forced the translators who were doing the translations to stop or move to their platform, from there they then went on to introduce ad's /SS to read chapters. And well now we have the newest scheme for a fast cash grab.
If you honestly can't see past your own interpretation of my words and see the truth of the situation then I have nothing more to say to you.
Look at the big picture here mate, don't be petty.
KingDerp Yes consumer law protects people, but companies who act to address issues are protected, in fact applauded as they are seen as responsive to consumers. Webnovel did that when the confusion occurred two ways, compensation plus corrected the information to be more clearer.
Your constant complaint seems to be you have an interpretation and as your interpretation is not delivered then it is exploitive behaviour. That is not.
I wish you luck but hope you lose as you can only think about yourself not all the other users around the world.
- Edited
KingDerp I don't really care about the privilege scheme since I feel like people who buy into the "privilege of being robbed," a privilege they're not forced into, deserve to be damned.
However, you've been talking about excessive pricing of the company when in my understanding, it is authors and translators that set their prices (in the case of privileged chapters).
Are you going to sue every single one of them too?
KingDerp Last response because I don’t want to make you feel bullied or anything due to having a different opinion than me on this issue. You have all the right in the world to pursue what you want to pursue and to be unhappy about whatever. You made a statement that I can’t let go though.
You asked, “are you so daft that you can see that the whole privilege program is exploiting us?” I know it’s a rough paraphrase but it captures to spirit of your question so I won’t quibble the semantics but the heart of your question.
Are you? I’m not the one threatening a law suit, calling in the EU, talking to lawyers, or preaching the gospel of corporate greed and exploitation to the internet. If it’s so obvious then why use the app? Why invest your precious money not once, but twice? Why post on 13 other forum posts about their illegal activity if it’s a foregone conclusion?
Yes, they are providing an exclusive service at a premium. They aren’t selling crack to kids. Your old enough to make a decision on your own. Is the cost exaggerated, yes!!! Is the privilege service confusing, yes!!! So, they still provided what they said they would. As an adult, I have to take responsibility when I use my money in a unintelligent way not blame someone for taking my money when I made a poor decision.
I’m not an employee, translator, author, or collaborator in a conspiracy. I am a huge fan of these works who is burning time waiting for my free chapters to catch back up with my unlocked privilege ones from last month. 3 more days and I am back to my favorite story. I know if I spent the money thinking 50 more chapters I would be super bummed. Your still 50 chapters ahead of everyone who didn’t pay so there’s that! Gl with changing everything.
- Edited
what are you comparing to in regards to unfair pricing? ive been to a lot of translating sites and have you ever seen their patreons? i think the last ones i looked at was $80 for 40 advance chapters. some that release more updated chapters each week after reaching a certain total like 1 chapter for $500, 2 for 1000, etc on top of the regular update and advanced chapters based on how much you spend. then theres support bars like $35 for 1 chapter only. cant use any free spirit stones there. not saying i like the privilege or anything, but it seems on par with others
- Edited
Feng_Sha OMG, this is worst! I won't charged my readers like that! Webnovel seems a better choice compare to this Patreon thing. If you don't subscribe to privilege thingy, then no problem, I guess.
- Edited
Those who buy privilege are those stupid rich young master mentioned in the novel from top to down. Those person are willing to get scammed even though they know. Why? Cause they have no brain but money..
PS: no offense to those who buy. I am just joking. Your money your choice
You guys got hella off topic real fast. Look we all know we are getting screwed. Their premium account set up was brilliant and it was good for all of us. However they chose to disengage it because of greed. All they've done with privellage is repackage the spirit stone system yo make some more. The fact of the matter is you do not spend as much on regular books as you do on qidian for a singular novel. However that isnt the authors fault. You have to realize the authors only get a percentage of the money QI gets the lions share. To make their writing worth while authors are forced to set high prices to maintain a steady income. My point is arguing semantics wont grt you anywhere. If your lucky they'll settle in the law suit but it wont change the over all bussiness model. If you want change everyone form wvery continent needs to act.
Someone earlier mentioned something about how a qidian chapter is worth not much in Chinese currency. Have you ever read that cooking novel where the chef gets the cooking system and opens up in modern day China (I forget the exact name I had to drop it for obvious reasons) I there is a part where the MC mentions how foreign customers must pay the same amount in their own currency. Say 100 yuan for a dish then for an American Ltd be 100 dollars. That is basically qidian at this time. All of the foreigners are getting screwed and frankly the nationalism is unfair to everyone else.
Those are my two cents.
Fiona_Singer Dear, I don't think the privileged systems is compulsory in the first place, if you don't want to buy, you can simply wait for general updates. It's as simply as anything.
The one who posted this stuff will loose more money than he had already lost if he takes this case to court, because it will be simply struck out.
zhiruyi with all due respect miss your not thinking wide enough. If this actually is presented to court and all then it probably will gain some ground. It isnt uncommon for differnt countries to treat foreigners with less respect with their own people which leads to cases like this. Ergo if derper has a good lawyer then the sky is the limit because it challenges international and trade agreements which makes for an intresting case for any feisty lawyer. I frankly believe it should go through even if just to fail, maybe QI will finally realize the passion their readers have.