5 days later

Sara_Wilcox My novel is basically a romance novel but with a slice of life and more focused on the journey of the characters than the destination of it. So, even though the novel is written from the perspective of the main female character, I see it to be descriptive of the feelings that each character shows when interacting with the MC. Basically, the novel is focused on feelings and thoughts that's why when creating such scenes, I focus more on the five senses. Like, how does their body feels, what do they smell? I tend to give more detail to the sensual aspects than the act itself because I honestly believe that it's more captivating to have that than describing the act.

    Here's an opinion from someone who cannot stand romance in novels just for how I feel and others who are similar to me might feel.

    I understand that many novels have romance even when they are not a romance novel. More often than not if it is written well enough (for example the romance isn't just "Oh you're the MC? I love you have my body!") I just deal with it and take it as building character for the MC and a side character who happens to be romantic with the MC. I might not enjoy it as much as other parts of the novel but I understand many readers are not like me and enjoy a little romance in their novels (I do not expect any author to write solely for me and only write things that I enjoy.)

    For romance that is not written well, it can either sour my mood about the novel, but I enjoy the novel enough to slog through it and wait for it to be over so I can get back to enjoying the novel. And sometimes if it is written so horrible it can make me drop the novel entirely (many novels that start great and then devolve into no personality harems with the female characters fall into this category for me. I understand lots of readers love harems and some don't even care if the female characters have good personality because the more people the MC can have sex with the better.)

    When it comes to sex scenes in novels (again coming from someone who cannot stand romance) I much prefer the "fade to black" effect or the insinuation (like Hatake_Shirou said). Where the parties will start kissing or start being extremely touchy and then the author skips to them either waking up the next day or getting out of the bed and straightening their clothes or putting clothes on. I feel that when the act is being described that I am reading an erotic novel at that point and for me wanting to read an erotic novel versus wanting to read a novel for entertainment are two completely different moods.

    Just my thoughts (as someone who doesn't enjoy romance in novels at all. I saw the thread stickied and thought I'd chip in the conversation.) Hope all the authors keep on doing what they enjoy and that their readers continue to enjoy their works. :)

    Agbedorwu thank you very much for the sentiment😁 However, I will not post personal information like that on the forum for many reasons, but I do have a Facebook page and Discord. I feel it is VERY important for me to state and clarify with you that this is strictly for intellectual conversation.

    I stated in the original post, I am a married woman and mother. I apologize if I misunderstood your first post, but the way you have worded it makes me feel that stating my marital status is important. If you would Strictly like to talk as acquaintances and writers, then you may contact me via social media(same name and picture as here). Reply if this is acceptable. If not, no hard feelings.☮️❤️😁

      5 days later

      This was very well written :D
      I'm a very open person, so I like to write raw, if that makes sense. I'm rewriting a story I've had in my head for years and one of the thing I noticed there was too much in was the sex scenes. There's 3 of them at the moment and only one feels.... Connected. XD

      The aim of my story is that the main character likes the idea of sex and is normally surrounded by men (she's a mythical human siren XD) so she has a lot of flings and stuff. But I think I made the chapters too long or the feeling we're somewhat disjointed XD
      So reading this now, I'm glad I'm rewriting the story to make it more inclusive. I've had no real life experience with this yet, so I rely on my vivid imagination 🤣🤣
      Thank you for writing this little article as well :D

        Sara_Wilcox Regarding your comment about being narrow minded because I stated sex is for the marriage bed. All I see are novels about contract marriage or marriage for convenience the majority of the time. As I said it was my opinion only and I wasn't speaking for anyone else. However, I'm not narrow minded, far from it! I am tired of smut and sex, per se and if that makes me narrow minded and bigoted so be it!
        Children have been used to gratify sexual cravings of both men and women in our society. It has become a very casual and common thing, therefore, I feel justified in what I said. Overall, Sarah, my comment was a complaint about how today's society has literally sexed most of us out. I understand what you're saying but to call me narrow minded and bigoted is going a little too far just because I stated a distaste for the sexual perversion bombardment in our society today. Sex has become so glorified that very young girls (ages seven to nine) are having sex because that's all they see in movies, commercials, these books and there are very few authors writing about married love, waiting until marriage to have sex, etc. In my humble opinion, the condoning of premarital sex is the reason so many young girls are pregnant at an even earlier age today and massive abortions. I respected your opinion but you made it clear that I'm narrow minded and bigoted because I desire married sex without the very graphic details. If our society wasn't so perverted, I might agree with you but too much is happening in the world today to keep quiet about the sexual issues facing the young and impressionable boys and girls in 2021 and beyond!
        I'd like to add one other thing: influence. These stories influence those impressionable children to have sex. I'm just looking for something more than just sex. I like a good sex scene as well as anyone else but all I see in the majority of these stories is smut and yes you can feel molested after reading about someone being raped aggressively and descriptively. No offense, but there are only a few of us who truly would like a change!

            GWEN

            I absolutely agree with your point where you talking about sex glorification literally everywhere.
            We are bombarded with sex everywhere. Later in many young people, incl. depression, etc. and questions what's wrong with me, if sex does not bring me any pleasure. It is not said at all on television, in commercials, magazines that you have to mature and mature for everything. Also for writing beautifully about it.

                Jo_J Thank you! You're a rare breed. There's so much confusion about sex and I don't believe I'm being narrow minded or bigoted because I don't agree with Sarah's reply to me.

                    GWEN

                    I wrote a traditional novel a few years ago - a romance, and according to critics, a psychological one. Those who have read say they are not missing sex scenes at all. If you want, you can write something valuable, without such scenes.
                    I just started to upload it on WN. I will see what kids will say here about it ;)

                      I wish you many happy readers!💕

                      GWEN First and foremost: as stated in the original post, this thread is about helping writers write sex scenes. It was not titled ‘Do you think sex scenes belong in books?’. The First line of your post was “I am a woman who hates graphic, pornographic sexual descriptions!” Which, right off the bat is counter-productive to the conversation, considering the context of the conversation. A commenter named Towel up top said that he doesn’t like romance period, but then actually gave constructive alternatives writers could use. You were more morally grandstanding than actually contributing to the conversation.

                      You were also literally discouraging writers from following their own vision at the end of your post. Saying that if they’re having difficulty writing it, then they shouldn’t. Writers get blocked or hung up on certain plot points, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t write it if they feel it’s important to their story.

                      All authors are told to put content warnings on their synopsis and/or the chapters that have trigger content. It is your choice to read those books. If an author failed to put a warning on, then by all means: contact customer service and lodge a complaint. That is what they are there for.

                      As I said, in my personal opinion: that you are narrow-minded and bigoted mainly because you said sex should be between a Married Man and Woman. I have many friends that are members of the LGBTQ community, and there are MANY on Webnovel. Not to mention the fact that I have two beautiful nieces, and their parents have been together for almost fifteen years: not married.

                      They pay WAY less in taxes that way, and they don’t believe a piece of paper is what actual love is about. On the other hand; I am married. I wanted the wedding, honeymoon, etc.. TO EACH THEIR OWN, I SAY. That is why I said you were bigoted and narrow minded, not JUST because you think it should be reserved for the marriage bed.

                      Now, as to your reply:

                      Again, this thread was made to Help writers create sex scenes. No to be a place for you to morally grandstand on your wobbly pedestal. How can you say, in your original post that ‘you weren’t speaking for anyone else’, but in your second post literally say:

                      GWEN Overall, Sarah, my comment was a complaint about how today's society has literally sexed most of us out.

                      Of course some might agree with you, and that’s fine. But that was not what this thread was about...

                      Second:

                      ....When/why did kids get brought into this?

                      GWEN I'd like to add one other thing: influence. These stories influence those impressionable children to have sex.

                      This was a post about helping WRITERS. What PARENTS AND GUARDIANS allow their children to see is generally up to them. All technology now adays has parental controls, age guidelines, and content warnings. Not to mention actually being a PARENT OR GUARDIAN, and having vital discussions with their kids.

                      My overall point:

                      You came to morally grandstand and troll instead of providing any useful insight or content. Don’t come here and complain about author content when you don’t contribute anything but negative opinions.

                      Complain to parents, TV stations, etc.. But leave the ARTISTS alone. Don’t like it, don’t read it. Super Simple.

                      P.S. It’s Sara, not Sarah...

                              The first novel I ever wrote (beginning to end lol) was about a young woman who was turned into a succubus. Trying to write in sex scenes that work with the story’s flow and brings out the individual was the hardest part. I’m going back over it, twelve years later, and smoothing out said sex scenes.
                              I’ve recently started challenging myself to change up how I write when it comes to sex scenes. It’s how I ended up with a female lead who is asexual.
                              Currently my focus is on a zombie-like apocalypse story where the MC is very primal in the way he handles some things, like sex. For him it’s about control and asserting dominance. Out of 60+ chapters there are two sex scenes. The first one was intense and had a ton of warnings at the top of the chapter letting the readers know what they were getting into.
                              It took me a long time to write it because I was torn about writing it, knowing what it would involve. I consulted with someone about it and we went over how the story flowed with and without the scene. For both of it it was needed, so I ended up writing it.
                              The book itself is r18, if only for the gore, so I wasn’t too worried about that. I still made it so that the scene was wrapped up with a chapter so that it could be skipped if the reader wanted.
                              One of the writing podcasts that I listen to once said that the definition of romance verses erotica was whether or not the sex scenes move the story along.
                              I try to remember this when I’m writing.

                                val_the_mysterious thank you for sharing your experience and insight😁 I especially loved that you got a friend to help with the editing and flow of your writing. It is a wise decision to have someone to bounce content concepts/layouts/etc.. ideas off of.

                                I wish you luck in your writing!☮️❤️😁

                                  8 days later

                                  Sara, my did I push your buttons! I'm not morally grandstanding. There are some wonderful writers on We novel, some should be receiving hefty amounts for their stories! I merely stated how I felt about certain stories. There were others complaining as well about smut and making that individual feel downright low. One even asked to have her comment deleted. In fact, I think you even requested someone delete someone's comment. This isn't a dictatorship where your opinions are above others! Everyone has the right to state how they feel. I will apologize to those that I offended regarding not writing sex scenes if they're embarrassed. Evidently I need to clarify my statement to them. If you feel a certain type of way, leave it until you feel comfortable enough to write it.
                                  As for your opinion regarding me being narrow minded and bigoted, I could care less. You don't feed or care for me. I could care even lesser about the spelling of your name since it sounds the same. You seem very petty regarding other's opinions but want your own to be accepted without criticism. Welcome to the real world! Not everyone will agree with you either. As far as LGBTQ to each his own! I specified what I liked not what Sara assumed! Remember what the breakdown of the word assume means, please.

                                    GWEN Thank you for apologizing😁

                                    The rest is just pompous yammering, but thank you for admitting your fault. I understand how difficult that must’ve been for someone like you.☮️😁

                                    • GWEN replied to this.

                                        I personally just write Sex Novels just for a cathartic outcome and to be honest, my novel didn't see sex as an outcome of love LOL. Thats why I use sex for the source of magic in my book, cos I wanna, period.
                                        My novel specifically written for adult, and perhaps would never get any publisher to even want to publish it, because its so degenerate LMAO.

                                        I specifically spread this book in lewd 18+ servers cos of that.

                                        My writing is so hentai.

                                        About how I write the scene, I usually very descriptive since I grew in RP-writing environment, and thats why its very descriptive. But sometimes I also write sex from sensation.
                                        Depends on the mood. But for this book, mainly descriptive, cos you know, I need release
                                        LOL

                                        sorry from a pervert with a degenerate mind

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                                          I can't agree more with the author of this post.
                                          Sex is not pornography, and vice versa.

                                          There are also a number of ways to NOT describe sex if you don't feel comfortable with it. That's what I used to do beforehand, like a brush painting a few lines, and keeping the rest in the dark. The reader's imagination can sometimes fill in those blanks rather easily.

                                          It can be a simple: 'This night, Tristan and Isolde danced to the melody of their intertwined bodies, reaching that blissful oblivion that only lovers knew'
                                          If you described the kisses beforehand, and the connection of touching skin, the depth of their feelings, that can be enough.

                                          More detailed, but still without any technicalities:
                                          "Her delicate hands traced the scars of his back as she clung to him, her plush, creamy thighs welcomed him as he settled in their embrace. And he found solace in her depth as he made love to her, relishing in the caresses of a woman for the first time in years until he abandoned all sense. Tristan nearly wept as he buried himself deep inside her welcoming body, relief, pleasure, heartache and love mingling in his chest."

                                          Now that I feel more comfortable about it, I'd put a little more details. But some words will automatically shift your scene to something much more vulgar. There are so many words to describe a man's appendage, for example. 'Cock' is a no no !
                                          If you want it sweet, you don't even have to describe it. You can call it solid desire for all you care, you're the author. Any image is welcome.

                                          I adore love scenes. I hate smut scenes. If there's no emotionnal connection, I feel like I'm surfing on a pornographic website. What's the point ?

                                          Anyway. Since I write mainly romance, I've got more or less detailed scenes, depending on the context, the mood, the depth of the story. But no vulgarity. This is love !
                                          And if we want our youngsters to learn how to treat a partner properly, they should definitely read more love scenes :)

                                            I’ve also read romance novels since I was 12 or so, starting with the Harlequin bodice ripper type romances. At the time these were pretty mild, I’d say PG-13 or so although I understand Harlequin has a new imprint these days that is essentially X-rated/erotica.

                                            Theres essentially 4 different ways you can approach this issue:

                                            1. Do not have romance in your novel. This is the choice I made in the two stories I am writing right now.
                                            2. Fade to black prior to any serious sex scenes.
                                            3. Try to write the sex scenes but remain classy about it (this is the hardest to accomplish, I think.)
                                            4. Lean into the sex scenes but at that point you’re just writing erotica — fine, I guess, but don’t kid yourself.

                                            Writing sex scenes is hard for me, even though I am rather experienced in that area myself in reality. I’m not sure why, the closest I can think of is that if I didn’t hold back there would be whips and chains and stuff that is a bit over the top but me holding back seems stilted. Heh.

                                            Good post.

                                              d_elfe thank you very much😁 I especially loved your opinion on:

                                              d_elfe And if we want our youngsters to learn how to treat a partner properly, they should definitely read more love scenes :)

                                              Thank you for sharing☮️❤️😁

                                                    @Sara_Wilcox hello Sara, I apologise for this sudden burst, but I would like to know your, and anyone else who would like to read's opinion, of course if you don't mind, on the sex scenes I included in this book. I'm thinking about stopping at the second one, and shift the pace to be more action oriented, and focused on the eventual plot, but I would like to know what you think.

                                                    https://www.webnovel.com/book/i-hooked-up-with-a-vampire_20217109505148905

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                                                        Sara_Wilcox once we have children, we start thinking differently I guess.
                                                        Mine are boys, I want them to be warned against this horrible rape culture that still thrives around the world, and learn how sex can be beautiful between people that respect each other.
                                                        I guess you can relate :)

                                                            d_elfe yes I can❤️ I also have a son, but he’s still a toddler. The second he starts having romantic interests, I plan on having a nice, Long discussion about what it means to say ‘I love you’, being a good companion, being safe, what a toxic relationship is, etc.. I want to raise a good man, not a man-child😂🥰
                                                            Your boys are lucky to have you☮️❤️😁

                                                                d_elfe and your book Tristan and Isolde describe the love and sex scene really well!

                                                                Thank you to Sara_Wilcox who give a good helpful opinion on how to write sex scenes in a novel. I believe it's pretty hard for some people to write it nicely in respectful and elegants ways instead of being vulgar and porn.

                                                                I write my sex scene in a prose metaphoric ways - as I really don't know how to write it in a romantic way :D :D

                                                                      Wulin_Jianghu that’s cool; it’s just your style/the way you write your character(s). 😁 No writer is the same, and the world is made all the more amazing because of it. This thread is just in case people wanted tips, resources, etc.. I wish you luck on your future endeavors☮️❤️😁

                                                                          Wulin_Jianghu Thank you, really, for your praise. It means a lot to me. And your poems were pretty romantic as well. I had never seen sex written this way, but I loved it!

                                                                          Sara_Wilcox Thanks ! We do the best we can, as mothers I guess :)

                                                                              Sara_Wilcox Actually I'm learning. These days I added your novel and started to read it to learn how. Not sure if I could learn it, but...let's see :D
                                                                              And good luck with your novel too!

                                                                                  Thank you so much for this. I recently wrote my first love scene and it took everything out of me!😂
                                                                                  I found I had to get descriptive to the point where I was like😳😳😳

                                                                                  Sex scenes, fight scenes... It's not easy to be an Author.😥

                                                                                    SpilledInk no problem and happy to help😁 I totally understand. I have quite a few intimate scenes(both kinds), and fight scenes in my first book, so I completely get how 😧😳 it can be before/during/after writing those kinds of scenes. Your worst critic is usually yourself. I wish you luck on your writing! Keep Typing☮️❤️😁

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